Tough Love with SOUL ON FIRE Actor Stephanie Szostak: Ep 18
Highlights from the episode:
The powerful true story behind Stephanie’s new film Soul on Fire
How an acting teacher’s brutal critique shaped her career path
Parenting moments where holding back was the most loving choice
How friendships can deliver the tough truths we need to hear
Why giving someone agency can matter more than giving comfort
Podcast show notes:
Stephanie Szostak has played unforgettable roles on screen, but in her newest film Soul on Fire coming out October 10, she steps into a true story about a mother whose tough love helped save her son’s life. It’s a story that hit home for Stephanie, not only as an actress, but as a mom.
Stephanie opens up about the moments when love has meant letting go or taking a risk, whether in parenting, friendship, or even in her own journey of becoming an actor at 29. She shares about the teachers who pushed her, the mentors who challenged her, and the delicate balance between comfort and courage.
What You’ll Hear in this Episode:
Things no one tells you about tough love (03:56)
The story behind her new movie Soul on Fire (04:18)
Acting lessons that began with brutal honesty (13:23)
Finding mentors who deliver the hard truths (20:17)
Beginning again at 29 and discovering acting (26:26)
The surprising ways tough love can lead to growth (27:57)
Stephanie’s story is a reminder that the hardest words can sometimes be the most loving, and that those moments of tough love often plant seeds we don’t see until years later. you.
Connect with STEPHANIE SZOSTAK
Watch Soul on Fire Trailer - In Theaters October 10
Follow Stephanie on Instagram
Get Stephanie's workbook: Selfish: Step Into a Journey of Self-Discovery to Revive Confidence, Joy, and Meaning
Be sure to subscribe to Things No One Tells You—Lindsay’s podcast all about the real, unfiltered conversations we don’t always have but should. From big names to everyday voices, each episode dives into the moments that shape us. Listen wherever you get your podcasts!
Follow along with Lindsay below!
Full Transcript
[00:00:00] Stephanie: I, well, I think another thing people don't tell you is when you get to the place that you've been working for so long, that, and you've worked hard, and finally you're there at the place and now you land in that place and instead of being like, yes, okay, I'm ready. You all of a sudden lose your confidence, and you feel like, Oh my gosh, I am not equipped.
[00:00:23] I am not good enough. I'm gonna be found out I'm a fraud. Basically,
[00:00:30] Lindsay: Hey everybody, and welcome to this episode of Things No One Tells You, TNOTY for short. So my background looks a little bit different, a lot different, because I am at my hotel somewhere in the Midwest. I'm working on a work project, a new project I can't wait to tell you about.
[00:00:48] But we had to call an audible and just make it work. Which I love because the guest on this week's episode is a good friend of mine who often is on the road working from the road. She's my friend, actress Stephanie Tack. And she also, if you didn't know, was a collegiate golfer at William and Mary.
[00:01:05] So first, I'm gonna start with the joke of the day, which isWhyy did the golfer bring two pairs of pants in case she had a hole in one? Do you like my makeshift loose sleep tablet? Ah. Anyway. Alright, so here is what, I have talked to Stephanie a lot before, had her in different podcast conversations.
[00:01:26] She is just so amazing. The work that she's done is well noted. She started acting, actually, later in life. She's been in some awesome movies and series. The Devil Wears Prada dinner, for Schmucks a lot more, but also A Million Little Things on ABC I loved her and the role of Delilah. But anyway, she's just so awesome and someone that I've come to like
[00:01:47] lean on a lot for work, advice work, mom life advice. We talk a lot about the balance of it all, and she certainly is inspiring with some of the tough decisions that she's made and the way that she looks at things. So there's that. But Stephanie has a new movie out. She has a new film, it's called Soul on Fire.
[00:02:06] It's based on the story of John O'Leary, who as a boy suffered severe burns and, his life journey after she plays John's mother. And hearing her explanation of how the role came to be, also how she got ready for the role. Oh my gosh, it's so fascinating. But also, Stephanie's just a masterful storyteller, so she weaves it all together, and there's just so much always to learn from her.
[00:02:30] So I hope you love this conversation. I can't wait for you to see Soul on Fire, which comes out on October 10th. We're gonna give you all the information about where to find more info on Stephanie in our show notes. But here it is, my good friend Stephanie's show. Stephanie, it is always so great to see you, and I love that it's sort of a rainy day where we both are in Connecticut these days are so cozy.
[00:02:52] What is your vibe right now? What have you got going on?
[00:02:55] Stephanie: I'm excited that it's raining 'cause we haven't had rain in so long and I've lost trees and I replanted a tree and I'm like, oh good. I don't have to water it. Oh,
[00:03:03] Lindsay: I love it. It is so funny. It's been quite a while, and I'm like, oh, you do forget how it sort of gives you that free pass to just like chill or let a candle or just be cozy, you know?
[00:03:13] Yes. You don't have to go out and do your steps. I know. Yes. Right. Exactly. There's no shoulds on a day with rain. Yeah. Okay, so I. I have shared a little bit about how we know one another, and, ou have, we have done a lot of different types of work together, which has been so much fun.
[00:03:34] Normally, in things no one tells you, we sort of wait. It reveals what the thing no one told. The guest or the guests along their journey, but I loved that you really, out of the gate, were thoughtful about this and came to the table ready to go. So, can you share what your thing no one tells you is that we really are gonna have fun diving into today?
[00:03:56] Stephanie: So the thing is, no one tells you that tough love can be brutal in the moment, but it can plant seeds that you don't see until years later, seeds of growth that you don't see until years later.
[00:04:11] Lindsay: I love that. How did you come up with that?
[00:04:13] Stephanie: Well, I did. I'm part of a new movie that's gonna come out, as you know.
[00:04:18] That's called Soul on Fire, and it's coming out October 10th in theaters. But it's a true story. And, the character that I play is a mom. I'll tell you the story, but I play a mom who is the most loving mother. Her son got burned on a hundred percent of his body from the neck down. And when he comes back from five months in the hospital and his fingers are amputated and he can't walk, she gives him.
[00:04:50] A huge amount of love, of course, but also some tough love. And specifically that is, letting him be at the dinner table, trying to figure out how to use a fork by himself, and not letting his sibling help him. And, a little later, they asked the piano teacher to come back to their house for his piano lesson.
[00:05:15] And when he hears that knock on the door and he hears the voice of Mrs. Whitaker, who's his piano teacher, he's like, Mom, what is she doing here? You know, he has no fingers. He's not going to school because he can't walk yet. And she says to him. Because it's time for your piano lesson, and I don't know, you know, you're not different than your brothers and sisters.
[00:05:38] My kids take piano lessons, and you're gonna take piano lessons, and
[00:05:43] Lindsay: That gives me such chills.
[00:05:45] Stephanie: I know. And I remember reading, you know, I read, this is the story of John O'Leary. This is the story is John O'Leary, based on a true story. John O'Leary is the man. Is the man. Yep. Today he's. The a podcast host of a podcast called Living Inspired, he wrote his memoir that is called On Fire.
[00:06:03] It's a beautiful book that I read years ago. And he says in that moment. I hated my mom. But now John also gives; he is a motivational, inspirational speaker. And when he speaks, you know, he lets you do a little bit of reflection during his speech, and he invariably goes to the piano that's on stage. And he plays while, you know, during his time, during his and now.
[00:06:32] And it's pretty amazing 'cause his mom made him do that.
[00:06:39] That is so just incredible. Okay, so the movie is called Soul on Fire. It comes out October 10th, and I really also want to chat with you about the thing No One tells you about Tough Love as it pertains to sports and your journey and your career, et cetera, and also like parenting that we're sort of hitting on in the film.
[00:06:59] But can you take us back to the beginning? This film and how it came to be, and sort of your involvement with this project?
[00:07:07] Yes. So about 15 years ago, my husband went to a, not a retreat, but an event with his company, and they had a speaker there. The speaker was John O'Leary, and Britt, my husband, came home with a DVD, and he was like, You, we have got to watch this.
[00:07:26] This man's story is unbelievable. And we sat in the living room with my son, who at the time was Max, who was probably six seven. And we watched, it was a segment on MLB Network about John's life because he got burned. When he was in the hospital, Jack Buck, the announcer for the Cardinals, this story took place in St.
[00:07:51] Louis. You'll enjoy this 'cause you're Yes. You're in this world of sports.
[00:07:54] Lindsay: Jack Buck, I mean, the legendary sportscaster.
[00:07:57] Stephanie: Yes.
[00:07:57] Lindsay: Who was in St. Louis?
[00:07:58] Stephanie: Yes. Yes.
[00:07:59] So we heard about that story of Little John, who was not supposed to make it, and he left a benefit and went to the hospital to visit. John, who happened to be a huge Cardinals fan, and so he, couldn't see anything, but he heard the voice of Jack Buck, and he was like, Am I dreaming?
[00:08:18] But then Jack Buck came back again and again, and then players from the team came. So anyway, this segment was, you can look it up on YouTube, look it up on YouTube. John O'Leary, MLB Network. And so we're watching this, and I'm just like, oh my God, this is amazing. I'm crying watching it. And then, years later, John writes his memoir, we read his memoir, and then he starts his podcast.
[00:08:41] We listen to his podcast. It's beautiful. And. Then, I had the show A Million Little Things that was coming out, and so I had a publicist, and my husband was like, What? Why don't you ask John O'Leary if he'll have you on his podcast? And I was like, oh my gosh, that's such a good idea. So I wrote him a letter about how I got to know him, and I had never done a podcast, ever.
[00:09:09] Lindsay: And, you had never met him because
[00:09:10] Stephanie: Never.
[00:09:10] Lindsay: This was all just the story that was told from Brit because
[00:09:14] Stephanie: Yes.
[00:09:14] Lindsay: Was so moved,
[00:09:16] Stephanie: And then we became fans, you know, of his story. Yeah. And his message of really living with wonder. And, you know, your world can be turned upside down and your reality changed forever.
[00:09:29] And what helps you go forward? For him, it was obviously a lot of things: community, faith, family. All of that. Anyways, he said, yes. I got on his podcast, this was seven years ago, and then two years ago, when his movie, you know, was about to start in production, he texted me and he said, Hey, do you know the cute brunette who could play my mom?
[00:09:55] I. And I was like, John, are you asking me to play your mom to me in a friendship? Play your mom from St. Louis. Do you have that much, you know, faith in me? And so that's how the role came. Came to me. It was amazing.
[00:10:13] Lindsay: Wait. I feel like I know you shared that story, but maybe not in that detail. That is just bananas.
[00:10:20] That is bananas. Full circle. Like amazing. I could cry.
[00:10:24] Stephanie: It really is. It really is. Because also, you know, he didn't have me audition for nothing. He just really convinced the producers. He was like, This is who I want to play, my mom.
[00:10:36] Lindsay: and you. Like, and this all just came together so completely organically because he spoke, I mean that, just everything about it.
[00:10:44] I love it. Yes, it is just like meant to be. So when he called you and said that, what was going through your mind?
[00:10:52] Stephanie: Oh my gosh. Amazing. What an honor. Holy shit. I have to, this is the first time I've ever played somebody real. How do I do that? How do I begin to speak like? I need to find a dialect coach, blah, blah. But it was fear, excitement, gratitude, all of it.
[00:11:16] Lindsay: So. Wow. So what? What goes into that? Playing a real person? I would never even think that an actor thinks about that, but that's. The first thing you said, and I got that right. What is that like?
[00:11:28] Stephanie: Yes. You immerse yourself in who this person is. So it was finding all the videos that I could find of her, her on PO on John's podcast.
[00:11:41] reading her book. She wrote the book before John wrote his. Book Overwhelming Odds. She and her husband wrote that book, so re-read that book. I had actually read it. Brit brought it home with that DVD too, and is trying to really see how she and I connect. And then I found an amazing dialect coach who helped me.
[00:12:05] I didn't wanna do imitate, I didn't wanna imitate her voice, but I wanted to. Channel her and her way. It's so interesting how we speak, not just our accent, but how our mouth moves, says so much about our personality. And so I spent hours watching her in slow motion on YouTube without sound, just seeing how her mouth moves.
[00:12:32] Lindsay: So how does her mouth move? Can you do it?
[00:12:35] Stephanie: Just there's something like this, and it's John, a, it is a story of very intentional. Yes, it's very intentional and poised and, oh, I'm doing a bad job now, but determination. She just has such clarity in what she says, and she also.
[00:12:59] Her eyes are piercing when she's talking to somebody. She's right there with you in the moment. She's a lot stronger than I am. I think, you know, I' a little bit like, woo, a little bit all over the place. She's just who, but she's also very spontaneous. Anyway, this is what an actor does.
[00:13:18] Lindsay: How hard is it to get the dialect down?
[00:13:23] Stephanie: It was a lot of work. I had a great teacher who really helped me. Every day I practiced. She actually told me, You work too hard. We're gonna do 10 minutes a day. That's all you need to do. 10 minutes a day, and you know, I did it every day. I'm very conscientious like this. And then by the time I got on set, I warmed up in the morning, and then I was trying to let go.
[00:13:49] And she also told me something amazing that we can all use, not just with dialect, but if we are working on something. She said, You're gonna hear yourself slip at times on set, and I want you to say to yourself when you hear yourself slip, Grace. Have grace for yourself. She said, You're not gonna judge yourself.
[00:14:10] You're not gonna be like, oh God, you're just gonna say grace, and then you're gonna do it again. I've kept that for other things too.
[00:14:18] Lindsay: That's great advice. So, what did you know about the story so well going into that? What did it reveal, the research and the homework that you did, getting ready to play her? Like, how did that show up for you?
[00:14:38] Stephanie: So I met her when I got to St. Louis. Before we started shooting, John organized a meeting, a little lunch with Susie, Susan O'Leary, and I asked her, and we we right away in. She was so generous and open, and I asked her, Can you tell, share with me your earliest memory?
[00:15:02] From early childhood, I had read this in an acting book that it's a really great way to. Connect to your character, like, because it's probably something powerful, right? It could be joyful. It could be, but it will tell you, like, what is that one thing that is your first memory? And she said, It's a great practice.
[00:15:25] I can't, I'm trying to think about it. Mine now, you know? Yeah. If you can do self-analysis. But she said it was her in reality, young at home with her sister playing, and their grandmother lived with them. And she remembers her grandmother saying a lot, Susie, come help me in the bath.
[00:15:45] And she'd be like, Ohh, I don't wanna stop playing, but I'm gonna come and help my grandma in the bath. You know? And so she's telling me this story, and I'm thinking, oh my gosh. Her earliest memory is that of being a caregiver. And then she had to be her son's caregiver when he spent five months in the hospital and all the years afterwards when he was at home recovering.
[00:16:08] And then her husband had Parkinson's disease for 30 years. So I thought, wow, that's quite amazing. She's, you know, her earliest memory is of being a caregiver and. This is how she's shown up in the world for people. Is being a caregiver a giver?
[00:16:31] Lindsay: Yeah. Holy cow. So, have you seen the final movie?
[00:16:37] Stephanie: Pretty close, they were still tweaking it. I'll share one other thing about kind of tough love. Yeah. It's actually interesting 'cause I asked my son, you know, and yesterday as we were preparing for this podcast, I was like, do you think I've given you tough love at times? And he said. Yes, at times. But it only works because most of the time you're its support and validation and listening.
[00:17:07] And so he said, so. The times that you've given me tough love have made me pause and be like, okay, I need to listen to this. But, she so she all that to say that she's the most loving mother there can be. But when her son, that first night, he got wheeled into the, into surgery, and the doctor just told her, your son has half a chance.
[00:17:37] Half a cha, half a percent of surviving this night. And so she hears that from the doctor. So she runs to the guardian to tell her son that she loves him. And he says, I know. He says, Mom, am I gonna die? And she says to him, I don't know. John, do you wanna die? And later she explained that because it's such a surprising thing to say, right?
[00:18:17] As you're a mother. Yeah. What, do we, no, you're not, you're going to be fine. And I love you. Like, that's what we
[00:18:23] Lindsay: Yeah,
[00:18:23] Stephanie: thThat'shat we would say. And she, described later she said that that sentence came to me. It was like. T In her words, the word of this, of the spirit that just came through me.
[00:18:35] And he said to her, he, no, I don't wanna die. And then she said, and this is not in the movie, but it's what she actually said in real life. She said, Well, then you're gonna have to fight. You're gonna have to run faster than you've ever run, on that soccer field, and you're gonna hold God's hand. And daddy and I are gonna be right by you.
[00:18:55] But like here. It was, I love that because she didn't just, she didn't give him comfort. She gave him agency in that moment, and she told him, You know how to fight, and you're gonna fight even harder than this. She gave him a game plan, a roadmap to what he was about to do. Yeah.
[00:19:15] Lindsay: And, did he ever, has, he mention what that meant to him?
[00:19:20] What does he recall or say about that?
[00:19:23] Stephanie: Yeah, he says, my mom, you know, he credits, I mean, he, he credits, he says, my story's not about me. It's about all the people who have come to help me believe in myself. Whether his mom, the nurses who helped him try to walk again when people said you wouldn't be able to walk, or when it was so painful.
[00:19:49] the baseball team, Jack Buck, geez, the whole community, and his wife, later in college, you know
[00:20:00] Lindsay: That I do feel like it's, the concept of tough love is. Especially in parenting is hard. It is like, but you're right. It's like those moments that you wonder, like, where did she find those words? Right?
[00:20:14] Stephanie: Yes.
[00:20:15] Lindsay: You just,
[00:20:17] Stephanie: You don't wanna. I know for me, I'm, I am as a mother, I mean, I think it's instinctive. We don't wanna see our kids struggle. We wanna solve it for them. And then at times, I had a babysitter, who I learned from, who was unbelievable. Instead of sending the kids to a time-out. She would send them to their room, and she would say, You have to write an essay.
[00:20:47] And in this essay, like when they were Max was 10, you have to tell me what happened and why it happened and what you're gonna do, what you learned, and what you're gonna do differently next time. And
[00:20:58] Lindsay: I think that's genius,
[00:20:59] Stephanie: Right? But they were like having, I, it was tough love, but then.
[00:21:05] Lindsay: Did Max do it?
[00:21:06] Stephanie: Yes, and if they, Max said, sometimes I would just, you know, mail it in, and she'd be like, No, that's not good enough.
[00:21:14] Lindsay: Yeah. Yeah. That's, I love it. And, I was thinking about it. When thinking about what we were talking about and I was thinking, because like when you're talking about how he did this for all the people around him, and you know, it's interesting when you think about like, who are your mentors and who have you learned from?
[00:21:34] And I think everyone's path with that is so different. Like some people have one real constant. Person, whether it's a professional person or a family member. memberAnd I was thinking back to my, I was like, my mom is really good at tough love, but only like. It's funny how, when you think about it on the other side, I think I'm wired a bit like my son, unfortunately.
[00:21:55] I think we're very big empaths, and I say unfortunately just because I think sometimes that becomes weird and debilitating, but it is ultimately a very nice thing. But I have found that I really respond when someone who I go to, that is my comfort zone, flips a switch, and is like, You can do this.
[00:22:15] You know, and it's exactly what you're talking about. But I remember when we were leaving. This is totally different from your movie topic, but we were moving from Washington, D.C., and I, Melvin, was getting married. We were coming to Connecticut, and we made that move because both of us had job opportunities and we got them at the same time, which was really rare in our industry.
[00:22:36] Mine was up the road in Bristol at ESPN. Melvin's was at M-S-N-B-C. So we made it work geographically where we are. And I remember right before we left. I was like, wWhathave we done? Like I'm real. I was really excited about the opportunity, but I was so sad at my core because I was leaving my home. I had moved back and was working this awesome job in the city where I basically grew up.
[00:23:03] I was around all my friends. I was, it was just this real warm, fuzzy, awesome experience, and my mom. The morning we moved. I'm not gonna cry when I say this. She texts me, I almost went downstairs to ask her, 'cause she's visiting and I was like, we're both gonna be crying on the floor. I'm not gonna do that.
[00:23:21] She sends me this text message video, and we had probably already left. And she was like, You get in that car and you just embrace every moment of this. You're so excited. This is gonna be the best thing. And I knew this, you know, I'm crying. I knew she didn't feel that way 'cause she was so sad. Yeah. Which is probably how.
[00:23:40] John's mom felt obviously in that moment, right? Yeah, very different stories, but I was just like, how awesome is that? Well, this is a disaster.
[00:23:49] Stephanie: No, I hear you. I'm also an empath, so I hear you. And I think, some, I have girlfriends like this. Yeah. I have two girlfriends whom I met in college, and we're all mothers.
[00:24:02] We, we've, we know everything about one another. We don't speak that often, actually. Yeah. Yeah. But when we do sp but we call each other when we are in a mess. And when, you know, it's like, and when you feel like you just can't get it right and you can't figure it, it's the safe person where you can go when you, like, you're saying you're in that sort of spiral and you're like, da and these girlfriends are like, okay, yeah, okay, fine, but that's enough.
[00:24:26] Now this is the thing. And it's like, get your head out of your but, and this is what you're gonna do. And it gives you a little bit, okay. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, coach. It gives you clarity and a way forward.
[00:24:39] Lindsay: Yeah, I really, so that's why I really love the topic, and I think that it is funny, almost comical when I attempt to do that with my son, but he really responds to it, right?
[00:24:50] Stephanie: Does what you, just, you say you're feeling like she, she used your, she told you what you're feeling. She said you're excited and you're gonna be great. And you're grateful. In the present tense, she gave me agency.
[00:25:01] Lindsay: Yeah, it's what you said. She gave me agency, and I think that's, you're right. It's like when you do it effectively, you're giving the other person, the agency.
[00:25:08] And the only example I have of like recently with my son is the kid who, no matter what you're in school. It is. I drop him off at school. He turns around five times. Bye Mom. Meanwhile, my daughter, who you know, can't get into, doesn't even look back anymore. She's only eight. She's just like peace.
[00:25:27] Stephanie: That was my first and second, too. Second is like, can you not come to the bus with me?
[00:25:33] Lindsay: Exactly. Yeah. But, so for whatever reason, now Delilah’s like, okay, bye-bye. So there was one day where he Monday sometimes, or a struggle for him where it's like he's going back into that routine, and whatever was going on this day, I was just like, you've got this.
[00:25:48] You gotta get it. You go up to that school, you walk in there, you walk in there like you feel like LeBron James on the basketball court. I was like, I wanna see that kid that played in that game last weekend. You are that kid, and you can, you know, like, I'm not saying that it was the right thing that I was saying, but he was just like, yeah, okay.
[00:26:05] And I'm just like, all right. I don't know. Anyway, it's amazing.
[00:26:08] Stephanie: It's such good, because you don't think about it, but it's like, okay, we're giving you, give your person the self-talk in the present tense of the things that they're like, yeah, I'm able to do that. I've done that. Yeah, you're giving them the right voice in their head,
[00:26:26] Lindsay: Right? Yeah. You're connecting with them in a way, and I think, yeah. That's just so powerful. So, okay. You, but you've also, I know, had. The tough love examples, in other areas. And I would love to just hear about that. Like, and I don't know that a lot of folks that are watching or listening to this know that you started acting at 29.
[00:26:44] Yes. I love that story. Yeah. Can you just share what that was like, because I believe, I think it's really awesome and such a great example for people out there. You follow the seed of what the passion is, a nd you ask the questions, and you do the things you know, and that's oftentimes what can really lead to really amazing doors opening.
[00:27:09] Stephanie: Yeah, and I actually didn't have a passion. Passion. I had never taken an acting class. So I, like what you say, just follow almost those little doors that open and say yes to things when you're not necessarily, you don't necessarily know where it's gonna lead. You never know. So, anyway, I worked in, at Chanel in marketing.
[00:27:35] I had a business degree, and a door opened that led me to have an opportunity to do modeling at 26. And I did that. I left a steady job. I knew I didn't wanna be a model, but I knew that the office job wasn't really lighting me up for a, to use the expression you and I used a lot together. And then that led me to take an acting class.
[00:27:57] 29. And so talking about tough love. Right away, I was like, Oh my gosh, this is amazing. I was inspired by the work that I saw. There were working actors in there, and I did a monologue, and after the monologue was over, I didn't even remember what had happened because it allowed me to just completely.
[00:28:23] Sort of escape and yet just be really truthful. I was like, This is the most freeing thing I have ever done in my life. I love this. Oh my gosh. And I'm good at it. And then, we had scene work, and so I was getting up to do my first scene in front.
[00:28:42] Lindsay: Hold on. Pause. Yes. Sorry. Hold that though, 'cause I wanna hear everything about the story you're about to tell.
[00:28:46] But what is that like when you realize? That you're really good at something that wasn't even in your sphere at that point in your life. Does that make sense? Yes. Isn't that wild?
[00:28:56] Stephanie: Yes, but I think it wasn't, that wasn't the main feel, the main feeling was like, Ooh, this feels like I'm connecting to something deep inside of me.
[00:29:09] Wow. Yeah. And I, for many years, I've just. Pushed back a lot of stuff, and I'm in my twenties, I'm not sure who I am. I feel like I'm wearing, you know, five different masks depending on who I'm with. And this was a way to express myself. The light, the dark. It was auxiliary.
[00:29:29] Lindsay: Yes. Okay, so carry on, sorry.
[00:29:31] Stephanie: So, no, I love it. Raise your hand. Sorry. So I get, I'm very excited, and I get up with my scene partner, and we're probably 30 seconds in the scene, and I say to my partnerThisis This is a line in the scene, do you believe me? And, my teacher, whose name is Sandra Lee, was from the Actors' Studio, goes, stop.
[00:29:55] I don't believe a word you're saying. You go back to your seat, and she sends back. My scene partner to his seat, and she just completely destroyed me. And I mean, she said, I don't believe a word you're saying. What? Wow. What makes you think that you can waltz yourself up here on this stage and just become an actor?
[00:30:16] You don't. Do you even know who your character is? Where are you right now? And she started asking me, drilling me about who this character is. And then, I guess as she was drilling,
[00:30:28] Lindsay: You're doing what? Like are you didn't cry?
[00:30:31] Stephanie: No, I'm just standing there, and you know, when you're nervous, sometimes you can smile.
[00:30:37] And so I think I'm standing there with a little bit of a smile, and she goes, Do you think what I'm telling you is funny? And I was like, no. And then she's like, well, then wipe your, wipe that smile off your face. And then she goes, loLookt you. You can't even stand on your two feet. An actor needs to know how to stand, and you are gonna go back to your seat.
[00:30:57] And you are not to get up until I tell you're ready, and you're just gonna learn. I mean, talk about brutal, tough love. I think so, and this is about this, this is not parenting, this is our teachers, our mentors. And I think some of the greatest teachers know what their students can take or not take.
[00:31:24] You know, maybe somebody else would've been like, I'm out, I can't do this. I'm out. Goodbye. I'm quitting. I'm never gonna go explore acting again. For me, it was like. Okay. And you've been, you know, I'm gonna show you. It made me mad, but it also pushed me to learn, a nd it also gave me a wake-up call.
[00:31:48] Like, yeah, I know nothing about this.
[00:31:52] Lindsay: Yeah.
[00:31:53] Stephanie: So it made me accountable. It made me work hard. It made me wanna prove myself. And, you know, years later, I still hear her voice in my head.
[00:32:05] Lindsay: Did you ever hear the two connect about that moment? And was it, did it become a relationship that was really like mentor-student?
[00:32:15] Stephanie: Well,
[00:32:16] Lindsay: Teacher student?
[00:32:16] Stephanie: Well, I stayed in her class for about two years, a little over two years. Wow. And then, you know, she, then she was a cheerleader for me, but then it became almost, there was something I was like, okay, this is a little unhealthy, in, in, and. It had just run its course, and I was like, I need to go to a different teacher now.
[00:32:39] yeah, but I never, after that, you know, I should, I don't know if she's still alive. I've looked her up and I can't find her, so, but I would wanna say thank you.
[00:32:52] Lindsay: Yeah, that's, love my best like boss was actually the one that was the most like, it was like bootcamp. It was George Michael in Washington, D.C., where I did sports.
[00:33:03] I've had great bosses. Actually, my favorite boss at ESPN was also that same way. It was no bs. It was a story I just told at our event when I got called into an office, 'cause it was like golf work to do on my golf highlight, Stephanie. As I was saying, because there's just so much time to fill and it' amazing, but it's hard.
[00:33:23] And I, and. It's funny 'cause that was a wake-up call for me. 'cause I'm like, okay, I've really got to just dial in. And there's a lot I don't know about, about the intricacies of the sport, 'cause it's not one that I had played, but also just, you know, TV in itself. So I do love that sometimes the tough love is also what you just said.
[00:33:45] It's like a wake-up call, and it's motivating and all the things like George, my boss in DC, would do things like, literally the first time we were on the George Michael Sports Machine, the show that used to be,n, in the evening, it was like nationally syndicated and it was his baby. We would walk out on the set from these two, the doors would open, and we'd walk out together.
[00:34:09] The night I was starting, I was like ready to pee my pants. I was so nervous, but I was excited. Like, I feel like I always kind of get those, that nervous feeling. But he knocks on thee, wooden separator between us, knock, knock. He's like, Zac, don't f it up, is basically what he said. And I was like, Oh my God.
[00:34:24] But that was great. It was what I needed. And he knew that. And to your point. That also is what makes fantastic NFL coaches, or coaches of whatever team it is, WNBA, college hoops, whatever, is the people that understand how to get to the players because all players are gonna be different, and it's that gift of being able to reach them.
[00:34:45] Get the best out of them and not have them become shrinking violets, but like meet them where they are. That's such an underrated, I think, special talent, you know?
[00:34:54] Stephanie: Yeah. And the story you just told also makes me feel like a coworker, because you work with coworkers, and he's like, Don't fuck it up. There's a little humor in that.
[00:35:04] Also, I had an actor that I worked with, James R. Rodriguez, on A Million Little Things, who's so talented, you know, we all look up to him, and before,
[00:35:14] Lindsay Andndd for people that watch him, watch that show, what is, who's his character?
[00:35:18] Stephanie: he plays Gary on a Million Little Things. Also, if there are any Psych fans, you know, he. Yes.
[00:35:23] Yes. And, super funny, super talented. He's also a director. And before, you know, before we'd hear action, he'd go, all right, show stack. Make this one interesting, please. And it was like, I remember when I started working with him, I was like, Is he joking? Is he sh But it, it gave me that extra little, you know, thing of I'm not gonna be complacent here.
[00:35:50] So in the workforce, it can be. There's a cool little dynamic that can make you, again, make your game, get to a higher level, or raise your game. What do you say?
[00:36:04] Lindsay: Ra. Yeah. Raise your game. Raise your game. Raise your game. Yeah. Elevate your game. Raise your game. And also, I do wanna just ask you to share too, because talking about the acting you have mentioned and been really open, and I have stood by your workbook.
[00:36:19] Have created selfish, which is, sort of in response to the imposter syndrome that you have talked about a little bit. And I just think that is so relatable. I was literally on a call today with a group that is doing a panel talk and in an event that I'm going to be at, and they were talking about imposter syndrome, and I was like, Oh my gosh, this is like, anyway.
[00:36:41] Yeah. So when you. When did that happen for you? Can you set the stage?
[00:36:47] Stephanie: Yeah. I, well, I think another thing people don't tell you is when you get to the place that you've been working for so long, that, and you've worked hard, and finally you're there at the place,, and now you land in that place,, and instead of being like, yes, okay, I'm ready.
[00:37:03] You all of a sudden lose your confidence and you feel like, oh my gosh, I am not equipped, I am not good enough. I'm gonna be found out I'm a fraud, basically. And that happened to me, you know, as I started acting at 29. And for the first 10 years, I was just really hustling. And then after 10 years, I got a big break and I booked my first lead role in a big studio film.
[00:37:30] Called dinner for schmucks, and I'm playing opposite Paul Rudd. You've heard this story a lot. I love this story. Paul Rudd, Steve, it shocks me every time you say it. I'm like, what? And I really just lost my coconfidenceemember my self-talk basically after most takes was, Ohh my gosh, that sucked my own performance, you know?
[00:37:54] And then I was like, oh, they're gonna think it sucked. They're gonna think I suck. I do suck. I don't belong here. I'm gonna get fired. And I didn't have anyone. To get my head out of my butt on the sidelines to say, you know what? Your mom told you, you're going to be on this set, and you're grateful that you're learning, and you all this thing that could debunk this toxic self-talk.
[00:38:18] And so I, it just, it impacted not only my performance, but also how I related to other people and my wellbeing. And that happened for about two years. The good thing is it led me to seek to learn tools, like self-talk and a whole bunch of other tools that help not only with confidence on set.
[00:38:42] But also really gave me a whole new perspective on life and more joy and more meaning. And I'm sure all your listeners, you know, listen to podcasts. They get nuggets of gold from Yeah. People. And then you're like, oh, I love this. What so and so said, I'm gonna remember this, and then you forget. And so I was like that.
[00:39:03] I would read books or get an aha moment, and then I'd forget. And so that led me to create a playbook, just like. A coach, a football coach, you see them on the sidelines with their play sheet. They are not relying on memory to call the play. They're constantly looking at their play sheet. And so what if we could have our own personal playbook that we could look at in the morning before we get distracted by the news?
[00:39:32] Before we get distracted by emails, the to-do list, all of that, we would see our playbook that reminds us of all the things that help us respond when it's, you know, fourth and one in the fourth quarter of our lives.
[00:39:45] Lindsay: So it all, it almost becomes part of like our meditation
[00:39:49] Stephanie: Our prep, our preparation.
[00:39:52] Lindsay: Your mental prep. Yeah. I think that, The tough love too, that just the aspect of the pr, it's just, it's all very fascinating to me because I think what there's, there was no one, so tell me this, like when you started to work your way through the process for being on set and having that emotion, like did you ever find that there was anyone that would say like, Hey, great job, or like, 'cause I think about this all the time.
[00:40:22] When you start to do the thing, and to your point, when you make it to do the thing, sometimes people just aren't gonna be like, Hey, great job. Hey, because you're there for a reason. You've made it, you're there, you're doing the thing. And I think if you're someone who's grown up with a lot of like, oh, that was so good.
[00:40:39] Oh, dah, which is a blessing if you are, but it's like. You can sometimes really struggle if there's just not constant feedback, validation, or justification. Right. Validation.
[00:40:49] Stephanie: Yeah.
[00:40:49] Lindsay: Right. So I think my question is. Did you ultimately make peace with maybe not having that validation, and really, it comes down to just your own confidence, or did you find ways, other ways to find that validation?
[00:41:03] Stephanie: Well, it's very ironic. There was actually a lot of validation. Everybody was so nice and saying all the nice things, but I didn't believe a word they were saying because. I didn't believe it myself there. This is also, I, learned this later. I was motivated by negative reinforcement since I was little; for some reason, that is what?
[00:41:32] Pushed Really? So if a teacher, I had a math teacher in sixth grade who was really mean to me. I was bad at math, and I became one of the best students in math thanks to this teacher because again, I was like, there's maybe a pattern here. Like your acting coach? Yeah, my acting coach, my math teacher. So, growing up, I was always uncomfortable with compliments.
[00:41:55] If somebody paid me a compliment, I would be like, I didn't know what to say. When I did Iron Man, actually, I had to train with, you know, to fight, which I had never done before. And when we started training with my trainer, he said, You know, okay, great, that's great. You got it. And I was like, Do not pay me compliments.
[00:42:18] If you pay me a compliment, I'm gonna prove to you the next second that you're wrong. And f it up. So this is a lot of something I've had to learn. But, the point of the validation that you brought up, I think, if we don't believe self-worth doesn't come from validation. Whether you get it or not, self-worth comes from you, your own self, what you believe about yourself.
[00:42:42] I didn't believe that I was good enough to be there, no matter. What? That doesn't mean I wasn't, but no matter what anyone else said, it wasn't going to change that. I just. Didn't believe that I was good enough. And you know what I should have said to myself? What I learned later is, yes, that's true.
[00:43:02] I am not as talented or as experienced or as successful as Paul Rudd and Steve Carell, and that's okay. I am learning. Oh my God, I'm so grateful that I'm here. Yeah. I get to learn from them. I get to learn from them. And you know what? I'm gonna take a risk on this stake. I'm just gonna let go and play, and it's okay.
[00:43:22] I'm allowed to make mistakes. And so that's, those are things that I learned, and don't judge yourself. And don't judge others. And, but at the time I didn't have the tools.
[00:43:35] Lindsay: Wow. And then also. The tough love you have experienced, in sports, on the golf course. I would love to hear, because Stephanie is a collegiate golfer, went to William and Mary, where she golfed, and you have such great stories about the game of golf and about just in general, but tough love.
[00:43:57] And I would just love it if you would share one of your favorites or something that really shaped you that you still use.
[00:44:03] Stephanie: Yeah. In regard to tough love. So I started playing when I was. 11. So, my dad taught me the game of golf. He's one of my greatest teachers on the golf course and in life
[00:44:17] So, as far as tough love on the golf course, I think it was my first tournament, I was probably 12, and it was to get my handicap, and in France, the women's handicap starts at 28. So I had to, I knew I had to break a hundred to get my handicap, and he caddied for me, which he never did. And it's hole one.
[00:44:42] And, I get on the green. I am gonna try to say this in a way that even if you don't golf, you understand I'm, oh, everybody mini golfs. So I'm on the green, the ball. I put my putter behind the ball, I look to the hole, and as I look, my putter moves slightly and moves the ball a little bit out of the way before I put, and so I look at the woman I'm playing with.
[00:45:07] She's also. Try to get her handicap. And she's like, oh, it's okay. It's okay. Don't worry. Just put it back where it was. And then I hear behind me, oh, no, that's a penalty stroke. And I look at my dad, and I'm like. What? And he goes, You have to put the ball back where it was. I mean, it was ha not even an inch.
[00:45:29] And, that's a penalty stroke. You cannot move the ball. And I was so angry, but it was tough love, and he taught me, yeah, not to. Cheat. And I think not to give up. Not to give up. Yeah. Just like, yeah. And you just, you, also in golf, you're not playing against anyone. You're playing against yourself, and it's so easy to hit a ball in the water and be like, I'll just hit another one, but.
[00:46:00] Lindsay: Isn't that interesting about your personality that you just said the golf you're playing against yourself and that you've told everyone that gives you tough love like that you have, you know, that you basically have to play against yourself, and like it's just, it's very fascinating.
[00:46:14] Stephanie: Yeah. Yeah. I guess life, I mean, that's a good way to look at life, to, it's kind of liberating when you stop comparing yourself, you're just like, it's me against me.
[00:46:25] It's not, at the end of the day. It's your own path, and it's you against you.
[00:46:34] LindsaySoso with your, with the film coming out and everything, like what do you, are there, I guess are there goals that you have? I know that might sound like a silly question, but what is it that you're thinking about right now that you think you would love to see happen?
[00:46:52] Stephanie: I would love to find an agent. This is a very vulnerable thing for me to say as an actor. I currently don't have an agent, but that's also,
[00:47:01] Lindsay: This is a very new development. You had one up until very recently.
[00:47:05] Stephanie: Yeah, and those also are the things that. You don't, you know, That No One Tells You is that you might have a career of 20 plus years and a movie coming out, and yet at the same time, you don't know when your next project is gonna be.
[00:47:20] And I mean. No matter what area you work in, there's development. All of a sudden, you are, you don't know what team you're gonna be on. There are mergers, and you dunno if your job is secure. And so, yeah, I would love that. That's what I hope for is just to find the right agent and a good partnership.
.[00:47:43] Lindsay: To be able to move forward and just find the things that are like, that are meant to be. I totally relate to that because what you just said about things changing, too. I mean, God, I like, Imeann, that's the tough part too of this industry. Our industries are different, but a little bit parallel,l and I mean, I've had that happen where all of a sudden you're like, well, wait a minute.
[00:48:04] This change is happening. Uh oh, there's the writing on that wall. That means that I'm, I might be the odd man out. It just is what it is. It's business, but it's like you're, right? There is something about, you know, work is great, and especially if it's meaningful work. And if it's work that doesn't feel like work, then that's the best.
[00:48:25] But it's like. Work can give you so tied up in your self-worth and goodness. It's like sometimes you feel like you're cranking it, and then when there's a lull, it's like, and you're right. We could have an entirely separate podcast conversation about agents and building teams.
[00:48:44] Stephanie: Yeah.
[00:48:44] But I think this fits like normalizing the ups and downs of our career and of our lives. Yeah. And the writing on the wall, we're so quick to make an interpretation. We take an outcome or a situation. I don't have an agent. What's the writing on the wall? Oh my gosh, I'm this, I'm not even gonna say it because I don't believe these things anymore.
[00:49:10] But you know, I could say all these things, and no, the fact is that the relationship came to an end for the reasons that it did. And that's okay. And I, what can I do? What's in my control? That's all I'm gonna focus on. And maybe I'm gonna be out of a job, but I know I love acting. I'm never gonna quit. And.
[00:49:29] And even though, you know, I just told my husband a week ago, should I stop?
[00:49:34] Lindsay: You did not stop it.
[00:49:35] Stephanie: I did.
[00:49:36] Lindsay: You did not.
[00:49:36] Stephanie: But he was like, stop it. You love it. You can't quit. So whatever. We'll see what happens.
[00:49:42] Lindsay: Okay. Wait, so, so what are the steps then? How do you handle that? Because you're really right. Like there, there is a lot of self-talk that can happen. I literally had, I have this art class each week, and I found myself using it as more of a therapy session yesterday because I was like, Steven, I just don't know. I just think I'm washed up. I just think, and you know, and the same thing.
[00:50:07] It's like, what the heck am I talking about? Like, what, right. Yes.
[00:50:10] Stephanie: You know, but make space for that, so like you're taking art, so. Make a self-portrait of all of that. Of what, and then because there's something interesting that when we say things and we make space for those feelings. To express them, but we know we are not those feelings.
[00:50:31] So we're like, we accept those. Okay. I'm thinking of this. It's like, you know, you, your mom talking to you, when you got into the car, we can do that for ourselves. Okay? You doubt Lindsay. I'm gonna let you go now and say all the things you wanna say, and then you make space for it. And usually when we let it out.
[00:50:54] Usually it has, it's important or it's, I, our bigger self sees it and is like, oh, okay, yo, can get, gain perspective on it.
[00:51:08] Lindsay: You know, something that I have realized and I am so bad at, right? I really need nos, like if I'm rejected. Yeah. I really struggle when I don't hear from someone on the other side.
[00:51:23] Like if I. I would so much rather have it be like, oh, so we really liked your work, but we went in this direction, the wind and I, don't, I'm curious how you'd, in your field, it must be, I would imagine even like. I don't know, do they tell you like I, when there's something that like I will go for and if it hasn't worked out, and I'm thinking about a recent experience where there was like, I'm not kidding, it was sort of this dream job situation and I was like, now I know what makes me feel alive.
[00:51:53] Because the prospect of getting to do more of that kind of work was, I was like, yes. And then it at the end, it went as far as it could go, and then it ended up going to someone else, and that just is gonna happen. But I was like. There's no, like, no one ever told me that, except for one person who was the person delivering the news, who was my agent.
[00:52:12] But like, I'm like, well, great, but like why? Right? Like, so I guess maybe it kind of goes back to your like, I'm not, you're not always gonna get feedback, and you're not always gonna hear a reason. And I think you really, and Melvin, my husband, will be like, you just have to get comfortable with the fact that people don't like telling people things that they know they're not gonna be happy about.
[00:52:32] So like, you're just not gonna get that answer sometimes. Does that make sense?
[00:52:36] Stephanie: Yes. I know the waiting is excruciating, but also when you're, when it gets down to two people and you go through all the loops, there no nothing you did wrong. You know, at the end of the day is, oh, it's a better fit as an actor, it's like, oh, whatever the fit, and it doesn't matter. The reasonist, there's a certain level, if you get to that.
[00:53:00] You're, if you are in the ball game, if you're in the arena like you are doing what you need to do, and also you dis for you, it was a discovery you discovered, like, this is my dream job, this is what I want.
[00:53:14] Lindsay: That is very true.
[00:53:15] Stephanie: Yeah. What have I learned about this?
[00:53:17] Lindsay: That was a helpful thing. Yeah. I was like, you know, that's, that is the thing that I would really be like, yes, I will, that I could prioritize that.
[00:53:28] Yeah. Like, because, you know, but right. It was, it, I just, that whole concept, I was like, okay, so, and, but what's interesting about that is. I had somehow talked myself into the fact that maybe it didn't happen. Like I said, this is what I was talking to my art teacher about. I'm like, I really was in the final running.
[00:53:47] And he's like, Lindsay, I know that happened. And I was like, well, like who cares? Why am I even like? Who am I talking to? I don't know. Anyway, it's such a mind warp. And I guess my point is, at this point in the game, to have that still happen, it's like. Really having tough love with yourself, but what you've said during this episode of Grace, just like, yes, I love it.
[00:54:08] No, I'm gonna talk just, yeah. You know? Yeah. I'm Lindsay, and gosh darn it, people like me. The SNL, the s that, yes. Anyway, I feel like we just covered a lot of therapy talk. Anyway, you're, I could talk to you for hours. Can you share three things that no one knows about you before you go?
[00:54:29] Stephanie: Yeah. I love to eat with my fingers. Ribbed steak on a bone.
[00:54:40] I'm telling you this 'cause it's a big thing if you know me well, you know that I love I clean the bone when I eat steak. Wow, another thing is, let's see. Size 10 feet. I have huge feet. I did not know that. And another thing that no one knows. About me, I have no rhythm.
[00:55:10] This is really embarrassing. I can carry a tune, but I had an audition once, and I went to a studio, and the guy was like, Ohh, okay, yeah, you got a good voice. And then we started recording, and I was like, What's happening? I can't come in at the time I'm supposed to come in. I'm either a little late or a little early. What's happening
[00:55:29] And he said, You got no rhythm.
[00:55:33] Lindsay: He's like, I'm sorry.
[00:55:36] Stephanie: Yeah. It's just tough love, but you can't learn. I don't think you can learn rhythm.
[00:55:42] Lindsay: I mean, maybe, but yeah, it might just be a thing. Yeah, I don't, I love it. Is there anything you wanna share about Soul on Fire before? Before we say bye-bye?
[00:55:54] Stephanie: Yes, please go.
[00:55:56] To the movie theater. It's, I'm so excited that it's gonna be in the movie theaters. This is a family movie. It has, I didn't say it. William H. Macy and John Corbett, if you're Sex and the City fans. And yeah, Mr. Big. Yeah. No, Amy didn't. We didn't. Aiden.
[00:56:17] Lindsay: Aiden, yes, yeah.
[00:56:19] Stephanie: So go see Soul on Fire on October 10th in the movie theaters.
[00:56:25] Lindsay: Oh my gosh, I can't wait. And I also, people are very excited about the resurgence of Double Wear's Prada, which,
[00:56:31] Stephanie: Yeah, but I'm not in it.
[00:56:34] Lindsay: Why did you bring that? Sorry, I didn't. No, I love it. I didn't know if things had changed. You're definitely not in it.
[00:56:40] Stephanie: No, I'm definitely, so I'll tell you behind the scenes if you wanna include this.
[00:56:45] I wrote to the director and I was like, if there's any, you know, room for a little French in se, I'll slip on. Jacqueline fills high heel, high heels in a second. And, but no, I think the story is. I don't know what the story is, but I'm not part of the number two. Nice. They're lost.
[00:57:06] Lindsay: Did you get a response?
[00:57:09] Stephanie: No response? I don't know if it got to him or not. I didn't send it to him personally. So it was through other people, and that you would love that, right? The no response.
[00:57:22] Lindsay: I do. I was thinking, as you said, you are validating. What I naturally, in my mind, would've thought is, well, you've gotta write the email.
[00:57:28] You've gotta just put it out there. Yeah. And then you've done all you can do.
[00:57:31] Stephanie: Yes, exactly right. Yeah.
[00:57:35] Lindsay: Well, anyway, Soul On Fire. We can't wait. I can't wait to go watch this in the theaters and see it. And I think we might take our Girl Scout troop. Oh, that would be amazing.
[00:57:45] Stephanie: Isn't that a great idea?
[00:57:46] Yes. It's for kids. Yes. I don't know, he. Yes, it's definitely a family movie.
[00:57:54] Lindsay: So I just think the whole story of the story that people will see when they go to the theaters or they watch this movie wherever they watch it is incredible in itself. But then just hearing your backstory with it, the connection, it is just so, so cool.
[00:58:07] I love it. I love that you're playing this role, and I just can't wait to hear you talk like a midwesterner.
[00:58:14] Stephanie: You'll have to tell. Give me tough love, please, Lindsay.
[00:58:18] Lindsay: I'll, I love how you described it. Okay. You're the best. Stephanie, thank you so much for joining. Thank you. We'll have to do this again soon, too.
[00:58:25] Stephanie: I love hanging out with you. Thanks, Lindsay.
[00:58:28] Lindsay: Thank you. Tough love, and I felt like that was a therapy session. I really, there is so much to take from that to think about how you currently apply tough love, who gives you tough love, and what you learn from it. I just loved it. And also, if you wanna connect with Stephanie, take a look at our show notes.
[00:58:46] We have everything that you need to know in there. But also, please don't forget Soul on Fire in theaters on October 10th. I cannot wait to go see that in a theater and watch Steph up there on the big screen. All right. Thank you guys so much for joining us for this episode of Things No One Tells You. Can't wait to see you next time.
[00:59:03] Bye. Thanks so much for joining me. I can't wait to see you back here next week. Please don't forget, follow, and subscribe to Things No One Tells You. And of course, if you're listening on Apple Podcasts, don't forget to leave a five-star review because that's really what helps people get more. Listeners, we would love to grow this community.
[00:59:20] We are so grateful that you're a part of it. See you next time.
