From Sidelines to Storylines at the US Open with Elise Hart Kipness: Ep 14
Highlights from the episode:
How walking away from TV created space for a truer voice
Why the rush doesn’t have to end when the red light goes off
What it really takes to build a second act from scratch
How real locker-room life shapes believable crime fiction
What the US Open taught Elise about setting, stakes, and tension
Podcast show notes:
Elise Hart Kipness knows the rush of live TV: the countdown, the red light, the adrenaline. For years she reported from press rooms and sidelines, covering everything from the NBA lockout to the U.S. Open. But when she stepped away to raise her kids, the quieter lifestyle felt overwhelming.
What Elise didn’t expect was that silence would lead her to something new: thrillers. Today, Elise is a USA Today bestselling author whose Kate Green series takes readers deep into the worlds she once covered.
In this conversation, Elise shares what it really means to reinvent yourself midlife, how she found courage in being a beginner, and why a pause can sometimes be the doorway to a bigger purpose.
What You’ll Hear:
Giving up the adrenaline rush of live TV (00:00)
The identity shift of leaving a big career (11:26)
Writing as a way to find purpose again (19:04)
Real behind-the-scenes details woven into her novels (25:22)
Why reinvention can be even more fulfilling than the first act (45:01)
Tune in to learn about Elise’s journey from sideline reporter to bestselling author and the behind-the-scenes moments that fueled her thrillers. Discover the quiet courage it takes to step back, and then leap forward into something new.
Connect with ELISE HART KIPNESS
Follow Elise on Instagram and learn more about her on her website.
Be sure to subscribe to Things No One Tells You—Lindsay’s podcast all about the real, unfiltered conversations we don’t always have but should. From big names to everyday voices, each episode dives into the moments that shape us. Listen wherever you get your podcasts!
Follow along with Lindsay below!
Full Transcript
[00:00:00] Elise: I think when I stopped working, giving up the adrenaline rush was like my biggest fear because there's something about that adrenaline rush that, like, we're addicted to in certain careers, and you can't duplicate that. There might be other exciting things, but like that adrenaline rush of being on television or getting everything together and then being on television.
[00:00:26] It's hard, like it doesn't come with everything. And then I was like, Ooh, what if I could duplicate that without having to put makeup on and do my hair?
[00:00:41] Lindsay: Hey everybody, I'm Lindsay Czarniak, and this is Things No One tells You. This is a podcast about. The behind-the-scenes moments that shape who we are, those things that are also really relatable and really connect us.
[00:00:52] So each week I'm gonna talk with newsmakers, trailblazers in the worlds of sports, entertainment, all things, but also everyday folks, people who are talking about the real stuff that no one tends to share. Follow me at Lindsay Czarniak and be sure to subscribe, rate, and review Things No One Tells You wherever you like to listen.
[00:01:12] Hey there, thanks for joining this episode of Things No One Tells You, or TNOTY, the acronym as we like to call it. I am really looking forward to sharing this conversation with all of you guys because today I'm talking with my friend and author, Elise Hart Kipness. Now, Elise has just released Close Call, which is a crime thriller that takes place at the US Open, and I've come to know Elise as a friend.
[00:01:39] What I love is that she has turned a career that she had as a television sports reporter, among other places where she worked. She worked at Fox SportsNet, where she would cover different events. She turned that career after taking a break to be with her kids into this career as an author. And I did not realize that Elise really feels like this was something that was a shock, that she turned it into a full-time career, but also the success that she has had.
[00:02:06] And she recently was named a USA Today bestselling author, which is huge. Before I go on, though, I'm gonna give you a little bit of levity here because if you follow along, you might know that I love to do a joke of the day. Elise loves the joke of the day, and so in honor of her latest novel, I'm doing the tennis vein.
[00:02:26] Why should you never fall in love with a tennis player? Because to them, love means nothing. I know, I'm such a dork, but I love that one so much. I just think it's awesome. I think it's awesome and it's perfect. And I just want to thank Elise for giving me the motivation to include that one today.
[00:02:49] So, Elise Hart Kipness is a perfect example of how you never know. If you have a thought in your heart that you wanna take time or you wanna pivot, just go for it. I love how she shared that part of her journey, but also how she goes into the behind-the-scenes of what it takes to actually take the steps to become a novelist.
[00:03:10] And I was so interested in what she shared about how you learn to be. A crime writer, a thriller, a novelist, and what are the most important parts of that are. So I really hope that you learn something from this. I know I did, and I hope that you enjoy my conversation with Elise Harkness. As much as I do, this is a real treat because not only do I.
[00:03:35] Love to read scary things, but I love tennis and I adore Elise Hart Kipness, who? Elise, welcome. I thank you. I came to know you through a mutual friend that we have. Yes. And I just, I've given a little bit of your background in this sports, television, sports reporter, et cetera. But I mean, I just can't say enough, and I'm gonna hold up your book here, how
[00:04:01] These books that you've written are compelling. They are the real deal between the time when we spoke last for an IG Live that we did, you are now a USA Today bestselling author. Congratulations.
[00:04:19] Elise: Thank you. I have no words. I am so grateful.
[00:04:22] Lindsay: Great. So let's just start with, where are you right now?
[00:04:25] Elise: I'm in Stanford, Connecticut, where we spend half our year in Stanford and half our year in Key West because we got tired of the cold. Love it. And you're obsessed with Key West, is that true? We are obsessed with Key West, and it's like, it's more than the typical stereotype of party, party. There's like a really nice. Arts and literary community there. And I have a golf cart that I drive around in. Like we never take a car. We pick people up at the airport, we do our grocery shopping, and golf cart in a golf cart. You pick people up in the golf cart? Yeah. Oh yeah. It's like island life.
[00:05:04] You have to come visit me.
[00:05:04] Lindsay: Okay. That sounds great. Well, so wait, but how, so how that must feel really jarring to go from that to then back in Stanford, which, for people that don't know, is like right outside of New York City.
[00:05:16] Elise: Yes, it's jarring. I think the thing that is the most jarring is how far I have to drive, just like to get a cup of coffee or, I mean, if I'm not making it myself, but like the distance to Starbucks really like irks me.
[00:05:33] Lindsay: And have you ever taken the golf cart out on the roads of Stanford? But you probably don't have it here.
[00:05:39] Elise: Oh, we don't have it here. But God, I wouldn't even take it on my driveway. I love that. It's a different world.
[00:05:45] Lindsay: I, so I love those two different worlds. Like the juxtaposition of that, because part of what I was sharing in the introduction was just how you had this career that is very similar to what mine has been, and you, I don't wanna put words in your mouth, but you.
[00:06:00] You stepped back from that and you pivoted, then eventually became this author. And I really, I would love to hear all about this, but the reason also is that right now is the time that we're talking about a close call is because this is all about the US Open, in a mystery with a kidnapping that happens with the character Kate Green, who has become this character of your books.
[00:06:23] I mean, what is, like, what has this been like for you, having this one come out?
[00:06:29] Elise: This one has been really fun. And also, just, I don't even have words, as you can hear. I'm like, but to describe, how it's sort of taking off, like. To hit the USA Today bestseller list and to be getting like national attention and everything.
[00:06:50] I just, I'm really just floored and, so grateful and, I'm excited because Kate to me is such an important person because, you and I, and you are still in the world, but I feel like. It's not easy to be a female and a sports reporter. And I personally didn't stand up for myself the way that, when I look back on my career, I wish I had. I was just literally happy to be in the game, not to use the pun.
[00:07:26] And what I love about Kate is that I was able to be brave with her. She's braver than I ever was. I enjoy writing that so much, because it's very satisfying to have her stand up for things, besides investigating crimes and saving the day, but for her to be tough and stand up for things that I didn't.
[00:07:49] Lindsay: I love that. So let's take it back because I think people understanding your journey is definitely gonna add a lot of important context to what we're talking about here, and I love that. I think there are so many questions I have for you, too, just about the job and your experience and the job, but you worked as a sports reporter at a handful of places.
[00:08:12] NBC in New York was one of them. The local affiliate is also Fox Sports, right? So can. Go ahead. Sort of,
[00:08:20] Elise: Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna interrupt you for a second 'cause I came to sorts in a very unusual way. I was first a news reporter, so when I was at W-N-B-C-I was actually a news reporter and had covered news for a long time.
[00:08:34] And then I had an opportunity. To work at Fox Sports Network to cover the NBA lockout. And it was just a good time was just the switch. I was covering news at a time when, I mean, and maybe it's still a time, but you know, it was always about crime. And I remember my mom being like, Your everyday is kinda depressing.
[00:08:57] Like, you're always kind of down. And it is because, like, literally someone. A crime is being committed against someone there's like, I remember when I covered the TWA Flight 800 crash. I mean, that was devastating, and I was there at the site for a month. So, it really is, like it gets to you, but it's not your tragedy, so you really try to keep a distance, and I think.
[00:09:28] I think it took a toll on me that I didn't realize. So when I went to cover sports, and it's like, even though it's not always happy, like you're still, 50% of the time you're reporting on greatness and winning, like you never abort on winning, so there was like this joy sometimes in it.
[00:09:50] And emotionally, that was such a good change for me
[00:09:57] Lindsay: At that point, when you were working as a sports reporter or even as a news reporter, did you have this seed planted that you wanted to, at some point, write novels?
[00:10:11] Elise: No, absolutely not. There was once a journal entry I found a journal entry from when I was in my twenties that said I wish I had time to do more of what I love, which is writing.
[00:10:23] But like, that's about all I found there. I wish I had because you and I have talked about that time in your life when you stepped back from your world, and when I stopped working, I was traveling a month at a time for different events.. I just wanted to be home with the kids, like I made the decision to be home.
[00:10:51] And, I didn't know I was gonna have this second career. I didn't even dream about a second career for like four or five years. And at that point, I just started to write, and then I took classes. But like I, it was, I never. Knew that I was on this pathway towards a second career. I think the thing I didn't, I wish I had known, was that when I paused that there was, or stopped, I mean, I stopped, I didn't pause.
[00:11:27] was that there was something else on the other side that I hadn't even considered. It wasn't a decision of one or the other.
[00:11:37] Lindsay: So the thing that no one told you was that when you were making that choice, there would be something else that would maybe professionally feel as meaningful to you as what you had stepped away from?
[00:11:49] Elise: Yeah. Yeah. Or even more meaningful in some ways. How old were your kids at that time? I stopped when my first son was born. Literally like that. Moment, within moments I stopped, and. I think the hardest thing, and I wonder if you feel the same way, was that I was stopping the work, and more like, who was I without being an interesting reporter?
[00:12:18] Like, like, who would be interested in me? Like, like, like it was, everyone wanted to talk about it. Like, like, would anyone wanna talk to me? If I were just me.
[00:12:29] Lindsay: Yeah, no, I absolutely, I think that resonates. Doing my situation now is freelance. So yes, there's a lot more downtime, and I mean, I, Neha Ru's book really like struck a big chord.
[00:12:46] I knew I was excited about talking with her, but I did not think about the impact that would have. I think about a lot of people in terms of the stuff that she writes about. I think that there's so much wrapped up in the worth, and we know that of like what you do, especially if you have a job that is pretty cool.
[00:13:05] Like, yeah, exhilarating. Like I, I feel lucky to have had jobs where it's like you don't necessarily feel like you're working. And some of what I love so much about what Kate Green goes through is like. The relationship that she has with her videographer, and these things that people on the inside of that industry wouldn't really know.
[00:13:27] And in the end, I really think it all comes back to people and the relationships that you have with people, the way you handle those and handle yourself. But yeah, with the whole pause thing, it's like. There's really this mental warp and this like narrative that goes on. And I think the one chapter that I really liked, wow, gave examples of like, how do you, like what is your response when someone says, so what are you doing now?
[00:13:55] because it is a bit, I love trying to reframe that if you're happy to be doing anything at the time where it's like, I'm lucky enough to be able to spend time, I'm raising the kids, but man, I think. And I'm curious what you think, but I know myself, I have some, Elise, and like I'm competitive and like I think that part of what probably fueled you and me to be in the field that we're in is like, you've gotta have a competitive drive.
[00:14:27] You've got to have this like appetite for getting the person to talk to you authentically. Yeah, like there's something that I love so much about being in an interview and really like. Just taking the time and getting to know someone and being curious because that's the same type of thing that has to make you want to stay at an office until like 1230 in the morning working on something, or missing holidays, missing things at home, at school, whatever it is, right?
[00:14:57] Like we're all kind of. We're a tick off, but that's why maybe, I don't know. I love that we are at least one, right? So like, so totally. I mean, my husband and I'll talk about this all the time, and he'll be like, Oh, I'm loving this time. I'm, if he's off. But then the second something happens or there's breaking news, it is like, okay, bam.
[00:15:20] You're just, you're right back in it. So I can't at this moment remember exactly what got us on this topic, but I think it's really cool also that I read Close Call and all your other books, Lights Out, and Dangerous Play. It's like you have created this character in Kate who not only, like you said, is you've created her to be braver than you, but also like you are taking people through the motions of.
[00:15:44] Those things along the way in the career. And I also thought that it was really cool how you mentioned the fact that, like, you are taking people behind the scenes. Because in sports, one thing that I've always said is I love to have conversations with people to give them access to, to like take you back.
[00:16:00] And I think now the way that our industry is going, it's like. People are on their phones. They want more behind the scenes 'cause they can get everything else everywhere. Exactly. Yeah. To your point, you're writing about these moments in these places, like the interview rooms at the US Open and stuff that people have, don't get to see if they don't have a credential.
[00:16:21] And I think that's so cool, and that's real. Like it is, the way that you describe it is like that's it. Right.
[00:16:30] Elise: Yeah. I mean, that's the room that, in my memory, I interviewed Venus Williams in, the room that Kate is interviewing Lucy in. And I always have to go back and like have a friend of mine who's a producer at CBS, sports, she does the pre-games, looks at everything to make sure, like my analog world is up to date, right?
[00:16:52] 'cause back then, like, I was splicing radio tape when I first started. No one probably even knows what that even. Means, Right. And the avid, where you can edit. For people who don't really know, like, things can be edited out of order, but when I first started, you had to edit everything, or the editors had to edit everything, in a linear way.
[00:17:16] So if they messed up at like the beginning of a story, you had to go back to the drawing board. I think I'm really setting my age up here, but, you know, it was like. It was all these things. So I definitely have to work on getting that right. But I do wanna take people behind the scenes, like, like, do you remember that squeaky elevator at Madison Square Garden to get to the floor and, and to the press room, like, like, it's not glamorous.
[00:17:42] It had like a bend in it, and it was behind the scenes, and you thought it would collapse at any moment. And that's it, it was sort of basically like a freight elevator.
[00:17:51] Lindsay: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And I like, those are the moments I remember going to cover the Washington Capitals, 'cause I was in DC and during the playoffs there was actually, this was in Vegas because the was years later, the capitals were playing for the, Stanley Cup and they, the game was almost over and I had to get in the elevator to get downstairs to go to the press room where everyone was gathering to go out and, There was this massive box in the elevator with me and a man with gloves came on the elevator and I was like, what? And he's like, This is the Stanley Cup. And I was just like, oh my God, this I could actually cry. Sports make me cry. Like, i t's just because that moment was like, oh my god. Lives are so gonna change.
[00:18:36] And here's the cup right here, and I can't see it 'cause it's in a box, but this is like really crazy. Those are the types of things that I think are really special. Yeah. They are. Well, so, okay, so you were talking about your, just stepping back, wanting time with the kids. How did it start, then, that you began the writing that would turn into these amazing novels?
[00:19:04] Elise, I started to feel like something was missing. Like I just, I loved being home. I loved watching Power Rangers a million times and all of that. And then once my kids got into kindergarten, 'cause they're only a year apart, a grade apart, I had more time on my own, and it's so weird because like.
[00:19:30] Four or five hours felt like an eternity, of being by myself. Like, like, like gut-wrenching, like what am I going to do? And I used to have like a really interesting career, and I was, like, creative and doing all of that. And then. I was really surprised that the thing I missed the most was writing.
[00:19:57] Like I would've expected it was, being out like, like you were talking about, like interviewing the players or the deadline or that adrenaline rush. I think when I stopped working, giving up the adrenaline rush was like my biggest fear because there's something about that adrenaline rush that, like, we're addicted to in certain careers, and you can't.
[00:20:21] Duplicate that there might be other things that are exciting, but like that adrenaline rush of being on television or getting everything together and then being on television. It's hard, like, like it doesn't come with everything. And then I was like, I. Ooh, what if I could duplicate that without having to put makeup on and do my hair?
[00:20:46] Because no matter what I did, Lindsay, my hair is straight now. I know about straight irons and stuff, but like my hair was never right, and I had producers call me like, like, if I knew about a straight iron back in the day, I think I would've had a different career. I remember covering, and I know I'm going on a tangent, but I remember when I was at WNBC, and I was. In the subway, I was doing a story in August. It was 90 degrees. Likewise, I did a good job on the story, and I got a call from the producer, and it wasn't to be a jerk, like he was trying to look out for me. Like I remember, he was being nice.
[00:21:22] He's like, I know this sounds ridiculous and superficial, but. Your hair is really messy and like, like just like the frizz. And then when I had covered Monica Lewinsky during August and Washington, and like, there were meetings about my hair being messy. Like, like why didn't anyone just tell me to like straighten my hair?
[00:21:41] 'cause I just couldn't deal with the Friz. And back then, you didn't put your hair in a ponytail like that was a no-no. Like now you do. Yes, Right. Like it had to be down sometimes short, which makes it harder. And, but that looked more male, to be short and cropped. And. So it was a thing.
[00:22:02] So I'm like, well, what if I and my voice, like, like some people, like my voice, some people didn't like my voice. It was the thing I was most insecure about besides my hair. So, now that I've, like, told you all my, like, terrible insecurities, and then I'm like, but I felt good about my writing. So I'm like, Ooh, what if I could write an, have the best voice, have the neatest hair.
[00:22:27] make my main character tall 'cause I'm not tall and never have to put makeup on and do it from bed. Like what's better than that? 'Cause I do write in bed. Oh really? The lap desk? Yeah. Yeah. I like to write in bed. I like to be very cozy with my dogs. And in the morning, sometimes at a given time that you write?
[00:22:46] I try to write in the morning. If I'm like creating the first draft, which to me is like throwing up, 'cause it's like. Getting that first draft out, but when I edit, I can kind of edit any time of the day or really from anywhere. But I never work at a desk. I might take a shower in the early afternoon and then go downstairs and work on the couch.
[00:23:09] yeah,
[00:23:10] Lindsay: I'm really a homebody. No, I love it. And I, because I actually had not thought about it through that lens, of you,l ike really. Being able to create and bring people into that world, and that sounds like really simple and strange, but it's funny 'cause when you talk about hair, I have like, my hair has never been my strong suit.
[00:23:33] I really wish my neck were longer. That's the one thing I've come to realize. If it were just an inch longer, I think I would be happy. But I, because I really, my neck's very short. I don't see that at all. I'm looking at our necks and I know it's way longer than mine. Anyway, when, was at NBC in Washington and I had an opportunity to do the Olympics for NBC Sports [00:23:56]. And what was funny, and this is now that I look back, it's funny on many levels, they, I was called me into an office and they were like, okay, we're so excited. This is the assignment. And I was like, thrilled and just grateful. And they were like, we just. We need, just need you to do something about your hair.
[00:24:10] I was like, and my hair was like down here at the time, maybe, but like, it just was never great. And they were like, we either want you to cut it really short, like a pixie cut, or we're gonna give you extensions. And I was like, say no more. I'm your girl. And so they, I actually. To their credit, they took me to New York and had me get extensions for this show that I was doing.
[00:24:35] And it was like one day I showed up on local sports news in DC, and my hair was here, and the next day it was like her, and no one did that. Do you know what I mean? So, it was, yeah, great until the Olympics were over, and then I had to maintain it on my own and make and decision what I was doing.
[00:24:51] But, isn't that crazy? And also, when I came back from the Olympics, it's right, that first weekend was when I met my future husband, and so he met me with the hair extensions, which, so thank you NBC, but yeah, so I totally relate. The other thing, one other thing that you just made me think about is in your book, I do, I love the detail that you write with is really striking and I think really interesting for anybody who also is not into a certain sport that you're writing about because it's very real.
[00:25:22] Like I kind of chuckle and really appreciate when you're talking about Kate pulling out the compact and she puts on makeup in the field because that's really a thing too. And I was thinking, I don't know what your experience was, but like we didn't have makeup artists. Even when I was in the studio in DC or Jacksonville, Florida, or Miami, we might have had someone,,e and it felt really bougie.
[00:25:45] But like DC, which is a bigger market, you didn't, so you'd just all be meeting in the makeup room with like all the men and women anchors. That was doing studio before you went on air, and everyone's there doing their thing, and God bless you if you aren't decent at that.,
[00:26:01] Elise: Oh yeah. I mean, we could probably have a really fun, funny conversation about the strangest place you've put makeup on.
[00:26:07] 'cause I remember I covered, I covered the fires for News 12 Long Island. The pine barren fires, and we slept over in the truck. And then the next day I had to go into a seven 11 with my hair dryer. I brought my hair dryer and didn't go into the bathroom of the seven 11, but they let me plug my hair dryer in at the counter just to make my hair somewhat neater.
[00:26:35] And then, you're always like sitting cross-legged. With your compact, trying to like, and that relationship with the photographer is so important because they're like, yeah, you gotta fix this. You gotta fix that. And, they're, really like, they, you, live or die based on your relationship with your photographer.
[00:26:55] Lindsay: Yes. And I, yeah, for a lot of people, I think that's kind of the first experience in the professional work setting. And so I actually think that relates to any field is like, I don't know about you, but when I started as a reporter, I also was news. And I was in Jacksonville, Florida, and I was paired with a photographer, videographer whose name was Mike Ru.
[00:27:17] And Mike was a former defensive lineman for the New Orleans Saints, and he had retired for like a decade and was now. This operator of the satellite truck, who is dating me. Yeah. Yes. I remember those. But I, he, and I could not have been more different, but really it was like such a wonderful, protective, awesome relationship for me because he had been in that market for years, and h,e like taught me the lay of the land.
[00:27:48] He was really gruff in a lot of ways. But he also likes it in that way, kind of sets boundaries for me to kind of learn around. I mean, he would do things like the police would get upset 'cause he would cross the police tape sometimes. And I'm like, what are you doing? Likeme, little Pollyanna was like, What are you doing?
[00:28:05] Like, you can't, it was really fascinating. And I have every person that I've worked with really closely, it's like they really become family, and they become much more of a therapist at times, too. Or that person who's like. No, I think this is a good idea. Yes. You like, I don't know.
[00:28:21] I didn't realize until I really got into those jobs in local sports, where you realize that like, wow, this is really much more of a lifestyle relationship, where you've gotta either really like the person you're with or find a way to kinda. Make it work, right?
[00:28:39] Elise: Yeah, 'cause sometimes, I would say 80% of the time I really got along well, but there were times I didn't.
[00:28:46] I mean, and if you're stuck on the road with someone who just doesn't like you for whatever reason, 'cause I feel like I'm pretty likable. And, so it of course was their fault, right? Like, absolutely was their fault. I, that was hard. I mean, there were times I called my, call my husband crying, there were times I found other reporters who were in the bathroom crying because of their photo, and.
[00:29:18] or videographer. I don't even know the right name.
[00:29:21] Lindsay: I know, I was gonna say photo and then I'm like, I don't know. But yeah, they're called videographers.
[00:29:24] Elise: Yeah. Yeah. But back then, we didn't say that. So, it was an important relationship. And it's so funny 'cause my husband gets on my case 'cause I tend to curse a lot.
[00:29:39] And I'm like, but that's what I had to do to get along with the videographers. Like they all are, cursing and this and that. And I was like, and you gotta fit in. Like, so that was my way of, I don't know if you had that too, but like there was a lot of like, that kind of talking.
[00:30:01] Lindsay: Yeah. I think the thing no one tells you from my experience with that is like. How important that relationship is to nurture, but also like how you can lean on each other, and how I still, at this point, I'm like, is it really that competitive? And I'm like, it is really that competitive. It is. And I'm not saying that as a negative.
[00:30:22] I just think there are certain jobs where they are. They're highly competitive, a nd you learn different things around that too. I really think you do. Like, and you kind of just said it like as a woman in a sports department, or you just learn how to exist and navigate, and then being at a place too, eventually, where there are more women in sports.
[00:30:45] Like for you, I would imagine Fox Sports Net was similar to that. ESPN was similar to that. It's like, that's kind of a, you have, there's different lessons there. I could talk to you for like three hours about this. I do wanna hear real quick, like what your process, like once you started writing, after your kids were at, of a certain age, like how did you, what was your process that you found in a, nutshell to sort of take it from something that you're enjoying to getting it out there, and then also like becoming uberly successful with it.
[00:31:21] Elise: Well, thank you for saying that. And it really is, so the first time I wrote it and my first book is Lights Out. I wrote it just like a reporter. So I wrote the who, what, when, where, and why, and it was really boring because there was no suspense, and I found I needed to. Take, go to school. I like school.
[00:31:40] I'm like, I wanted to go to school. I wanted to learn started taking classes at Sarah Lawrence, writing, adult writing workshop. Okay. So, not for a degree or anything, but you know, just to learn. And I did that for a while, and I really liked being. Responsible, held to task once a week with pages, and hearing what other people had to say.
[00:32:06] And then I got more specific. I took classes at Gotham Writing Workshop, and it's fun now 'cause I'm teaching thriller and mystery writing at Westport Writers workshops. So it's like, that's full circle. I love teaching there. It's amazing. And I know that's your hometown, so. Yeah. Yeah. That is so cool.
[00:32:28] It's really great, and I just kept working at it. I really feel like I should be awarded two PhDs for all the learning I did and all the drafts and all of that. And I think the one thing in writing. Because we're used to community, as reporters. I really tried to find a community.
[00:32:50], I joined organizations and I went to conferences and just kept working at it, and every year it got a little better. And eventually, I went to one of those conferences, which is called Pitch Fest. It's like speed dating with agents. Yeah. And, I found my agent there, who's amazing, Liza Fle, who, indirectly, I think, is how we met our mutual friend, actually.
[00:33:24] 'cause she represents, Stephanie, I think, and I, yeah, and I just kept, it was like going back to school, but in a subject that I was really happy to keep at and I liked, I think what I missed most about reporting. Like the writing part is that your brain, when you have that downtime, is trying to figure out a puzzle.
[00:33:50] Like when we're reporters, we're always like, okay, I have an hour. I need the soundbite, I need that soundbite. It's like a puzzle to put the story together. And my brain felt much emptier when I wasn't doing the writing. And so I liked that I had a place to go in my quiet moments as opposed to obsessing about.
[00:34:13] This woman didn't call me back, or they don't wanna, like girl drama or something. And I had a place to travel to with my thoughts.
[00:34:25] Lindsay: And a structure.
[00:34:25] Elise: Yeah. Yeah. I like that.
[00:34:28] Lindsay: So what, do you remember a moment where it was like, it went from being something that felt more like a hobby to, oh wow, okay, this might get picked up, or I might be able to publish this.
[00:34:39] Elise: Well, you were saying like, we're competitive people. Right? So I don't know that I ever thought it was just a hobby. I think once I decided I wanted to do that, yeah, I wanted to do it. But. I don't know that I, I don't, I didn't imagine I would have this kind of success. I mean, to me, success was like getting published and people being able to read it and all of that.
[00:35:05] So I'm kind of gobsmacked that this happened, but I think I always wanted it to be serious, just because Sure. Like, we're probably built the same way, like, wanting to do that. If I was gonna dive in, I wanted it to be. Na, just a hobby. And I guess when I thought I was getting there, my husband read it, and he's like my biggest beta reader.
[00:35:33] and he comes in and he looks at me and he's like, I never knew you were funny. And I was like, 'cause I do try to have a little bit of humor in my story. And I was like, okay, first of all, we've been married, like. 15 years, so where have you been? And second, I'm like, oh, good. That got across.
[00:35:56] That's awesome. Was he talking about lights out or close call, or which one didn't light out like he, he just didn't? Yeah. And he meant it as a compliment, but I was like, so then I call like four people and I'm like, am I funny? And they're like, yeah. I'm not funny, but like my dad is a silly dad jokes person.
[00:36:18] And I love, I have to tell you, I go on Instagram all the time to see your, you know, your jokes. Oh my god. I love them. I love them. They cracked me up like that. So my sense of humor, yeah. So I guess I felt like little by little I was getting there. Wow. Yeah. Did I even answer you? I feel like I just went on a major like.
[00:36:41] Lindsay: And so in this one with the close call, the US Open, you said you grew up.
[00:36:46] Going to the open, correct?
[00:36:49] Elise: Yes, I did. I live, I grew up in Great Neck on, on Long Island, and so, I don't know, we were a half hour without traffic, maybe even less to Flushing Meadows, and it was the event, that and a Billy Joel concert were the events. Yeah. That we would go to and so on.
[00:37:10] The US Open was part of my life in so many different ways. First, as a kid, it was one of my favorite events to cover. And getting to interview Venus Williams, I mean, I just really like her. I remember she had just beaten her sister Serena in, it was either quarterfinals or semifinals when she was on her way to win the finals that year. She was so down to earth, she was like, I was pregnant then. And she's like asking me about me, and I'm like. You just like won this big match ike, like, let's talk about you, but you're, that's very sweet. And then I went back to the US Open to do some research.
[00:37:53] 'cause as a crime fiction author, it's a little different. And I'm there with my younger son, Ryan, and we're on the outer courts, which, so good at those early days, you get to watch those like really interesting matches on the outer courts. And I see something on the concourse. And Ryan, I rush out.
[00:38:12] I'm, like, I'll be right back. And I go past the ushers, and they're not happy that I'm leaving at, probably, at a bad point. And I come back and I'm like, Ryan, look at this picture. And I show him a picture of l giant refrigeration unit on a dolly. And he's like, What's wrong with you?
[00:38:32] And I'm like, this would be such a good place to hide a body. Oh my God. 'Cause like, I mean, it, yeah. So that's how I look at things now. And like, we're at Arthur Ashe Stadium and he's looking down at the court and I'm looking at the wires with the cameras. I'm like, well, what if someone sabotaged one?
[00:38:52] Oh my God. That's fascinating, Elise. So, so it's like, it's just like you, you look at it in such a different way, or even like the patio furniture that I talk about in close call, there's like a place that Kate. Brings people. That's by the ice cream place, but off the food court, like that was really there, and I was like, like, it looked.d
[00:39:12] Lindsay: like much more like a Serena and Lily, or like really beautiful.
[00:39:17] Elise: Yes, Like, why is that? That's not what you imagine. And so I was drawn to that place and kept going back to it in the book. So I definitely was looking at things through the crime fiction. Author Lens, when we returned to the US Open, which was fun.
[00:39:37] Lindsay: How did you learn, like what, was the advice that you got about, like, something that's really critical to do when you're writing crime fiction in terms of making it?. Believable in a way that it really hooks the readers because I started with it, but I really meant it. Like, I have certain authors that I adore because I really love the way that they write.
[00:39:59] And I think crime fiction is really hard because sometimes you feel like things are just buttoned up really fast at the end, but I think that's a genre that is a little less forgiving.
[00:40:14] Elise: Am I right? Yeah, I think it is. I think that people can be drawn into a story and then feel very dissatisfied if the ending doesn't make sense and if it happens too quickly. And I think that people who read crime fiction often read it a lot, read a lot of books. So they're very discerning about each story. I think, and that was frankly my developmental editor, 'cause they're phenomenal developmental editors at Thomas and Mercer, they're always like, slow down the ending.
[00:40:54] So that is something I was told. 'Cause by the time you turn it in, you're so sick of it and every you are, you're just like, okay. And then she figures it out. Done right, right. And like with close call, I turned it in at like 64,000 words, and it ended up being 76. So just. To give you an idea, and the, I'm always told, and I hear this from my friends too, draw out the ending.
[00:41:26] Stephen King talks about how your most important moments in a book, even if they're seconds long, should be slow. And then the moments are less important. It should be quicker.
[00:41:40] Lindsay: Gimme an example. What is that? How do you do that? Yeah, so lemme think there moment in one of, and one of the three that we talked about that you could highlight that.
[00:41:52] Elise: Yeah, I, well, without like giving too much away in it. Yeah. Close call. When Kate realizes who the person is, who is the kidnapper, I moved from her just realizing who it was and being outside the location where it happened to, going into the location where that person was, and being the one to confront them, and then having like a sort of physical scene.
[00:42:21] Where time slows down and she has thoughts about it, she might be injured herself, and that moment is going really slow in the lights out. I think of it as when Kate is in the woods in the back country of Greenwich, having just figured out. Again, a key point in the story, and then she has to get back, and will she get back in time to tell people, because oh, lo and behold, she lost cell signal, cell service, like, which is very common in Greenwich.
[00:42:55] So happens to me. That's okay. Where we are. Yep. Right. Like, me too. Oh, I, people don't believe that. There's someone I remember who was editing, they're like, people don't lose cell surface in Greenwich. I'm like, oh yes, they do. Like that, I didn't fudge. And then you slow down the moments of walking in the woods, and what are the leaves?
[00:43:15] During the fall sounds like, at the soundsus sound. So, it's slowing SSoown those moments. Stephen King is so good at that, like, the moments in the woods or the house, the creeks.
[00:43:31] Lindsay: or it with the, the,
[00:43:34] Elise: Yeah. Like, you slow that down. So just finding those moments, I think.
[00:43:38] I think if I were gonna put a word to it, it's the thing that I completely. Didn't understand when I first started, which is building suspense, and it's something I talk a lot about in my class now. How do you build suspense, and then the opposite of that? I think what a writer leaves out of the story is very important, and how you pass the time.
[00:44:01] Like I write in the present tense, and that probably sounds very normal to you because as reporters we always write in the present tense, like that's grilled into our brains. So when you write in the present tense, you don't want someone to be like. I got up, I brushed my teeth, I went to the bathroom, and
[00:44:18] like that's really boring. But you do want them to go from one interesting point to the other. And actually, I looked at other people who wrote in the present tense, whether it was in my genre or not. Just for example, how to go, Hunger Games, that's written in the present tense.
[00:44:41] So, how to go from like, becoming the person who's going to the games, to getting on the train and skipping all the minutiae in the middle. How to pass hours, and so that's a very important part of writing. What to leave out.
[00:44:54] Lindsay: That is so awesome. There is, there is so much more that we could talk to you about, Elise.
[00:45:02] and I love hearing all those nuances. Okay. So I know that we've gotta say goodbye for now, but is there a dream sport or event that you have not yet written about that you are working on or that you want to work on that you can share with the teen naughtier as we call 'em, the things no one tells you?
[00:45:22] Elise: I think that if the next book, if I do another Kate book, 'cause we're talking about whether I'm gonna start a new series, and that kind of thing. But what comes into my brain, and you'll totally get this, is spring training for baseball because it's a different atmosphere. It's so relaxed.
[00:45:40] Like when I was covering Bernie Williams playing his guitar, and Joe Troy was telling me where to go on my honeymoon. And again, I'm dating myself, but it's like a different world that I would love to take people behind the scenes of. I
[00:45:53] Lindsay: I love that. I think that's amazing. Thank you.
[00:45:58] Okay, Elise Hart Kipness. Thank you. You're the best. Don't forget Close Call.
Thank you for having me.
Thank you for being here. Do you have any picks for the US Open that you wanna share? Now? I'm putting you on the spot.
[00:46:09] Elise: Oh gosh. No. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna, okay. I'm not gonna fall for. No. Only in my fictional book.
[00:46:17] Alright. But I can't give that away. Yeah.
[00:46:20] I love talking to you, Lindsay. Thank you so much for having me on.
[00:46:23] Lindsay: No, thank you so much for joining, and we will talk again very soon, but congratulations on everything and also lights out being picked up, with the rights so that this can become a bigger, that we're watching on our TV screens and in the movies.
[00:46:35] Congratulations on that. Much more to come on that, down the road, too. So thank you, Elise. Thank you. Thank you so much. I know it felt like for me there that we ran out of time, but I love talking to her about all the things, both from the world of television, sports, but also the process of becoming an author.
[00:46:55] And I mean, what a perfect example of someone who did one thing, decided to embrace the fact that she knew that she wanted time with her kids, and then. Coming into this entirely new career is super fulfilling. I love how she connected those dots. And I also wanted to mention, because we didn't get to talk about this with Elise, but the fact that Lights Out, which was the first crime thriller novel that she released, has been optioned by Universal and Mary J. Blige’s production company, for you know.
[00:47:25] so that it can come out on the big screen. So how cool is that? I can't wait to see what happens with that. And it's just another way that Elise Hart Kipness' latest career is thriving and offering things for people to both be entertained by, but also to learn from. So thank you so much for joining this on TNOTY Things No One Tells You.
[00:47:45] I hope that if you enjoy this episode that you will like, subscribe, leave a review, please, and we can't wait to see you next time on Things No One Tells You. Thanks. Thanks so much for joining me. I can't wait to see you back here next week. Please don't forget, follow and subscribe to things no one tells you.
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