The Real Life of a Rockstar with Chris Barron of the Spin Doctors: Ep 20
Highlights from the episode:
What it felt like to be part of a cultural phenomenon
The emotional cost of being known for one song
Why authenticity, not algorithms, fuels long‑term relevance
What performing still gives Chris after thirty years on stage
Why staying relevant means doing it your way
Podcast show notes:
You probably know Chris Barron as the frontman of the Spin Doctors, the band behind iconic songs like the anthems “Two Princes” and “Little Miss Can’t Be Wrong.”
But in this conversation, Chris opens up about the life behind those songs: what it feels like to perform them decades later, how his relationship with music has evolved, and why he still finds magic in the moment the lights come up.
Chris joined me at home along with my neighbor John Nunziato, a branding and creative‑strategy expert. Together we talked about staying creative, the parallels between art and business, and what it means to love the work more than the fame.
What You’ll Hear in This Episode:
How the Spin Doctors keep music fresh night after night (04:15)
What early fame really felt like (13:28)
Art, branding, and the secret to staying relevant (23:05)
Why creative joy beats chasing algorithms (27:56)
The real definition of staying relevant (31:50)
Reflections on joy, friendship, and creative purpose (40:00)
It’s a fun, reflective, and surprisingly relatable conversation about creativity, longevity, and loving the long game. Tune in to hear the latest from rockstar legend Chris Barron.
Connect with CHRIS BARRON
You can follow Chris Barron on Instagram or check out his website.
See more about the Spin Doctors’ latest album, their touring dates, and other band updates on their website: https://www.spindoctors.com/
Be sure to subscribe to Things No One Tells You—Lindsay’s podcast all about the real, unfiltered conversations we don’t always have but should. From big names to everyday voices, each episode dives into the moments that shape us. Listen wherever you get your podcasts!
Follow along with Lindsay below!
Full Transcript
[00:00:00] Chris: We were on Saturday Night Live, and they always have they always have party after the show. I'm like, what am I gonna order at the bar? What's the most likely rockstar thing I could get at the bar? I'm gonna order, I'm gonna go to the bar, and I'm gonna order.. I'm like 22 years old, I don't even know how, I don't even know what I'm doing here.
[00:00:24] I don't even know how to be like,
[00:00:25] Lindsay: You’re 22.
[00:00:27] Chris: 22, 23, something like that. I look over, and Dan Aykroyd is across the room, and I'm like, oh, I'm gonna go meet Dan Aykroyd. Go. Yeah. So I walk up to him with my bottle off, CCO, and he turns around, and I go, Hi, I'm Chris. I'm the lead singer of the Spin Doctor.
[00:00:41] And he goes, I know. And I was like, and that was it. I was like, Dan Aykroyd knows who I am.
[00:00:49] Lindsay: Wow.
[00:00:49] Chris: Like I have arrived, it's all, that was the first day of the rest of my life, kind of, first moment of the rest of my life.
[00:01:01] Lindsay: Hey, guys. Oh, do we have a special episode of Things No One Tells You for you?
[00:01:06] I have been so excited to put this one out there. Raise your hand if you love music and if you were around in the nineties, because if you did, I am sure that the song's two princes and Little Miss cannot be wrong. We're certainly on your radar. So Chris Barron is the lead singer of the group, the Spin Doctors.
[00:01:26] I have come to know him, and I just absolutely adore him. He has this tremendous spirit, infectious, like enthusiasm for life. But his journey is incredible. So Chris and I have become friends. Additionally, my neighbor, John Nunziato, is a brand manager. He basically runs a branding agency. He is amazing at developing different products, helping them burst on the scene, stay relevant, etc.
[00:01:56] A lot of big-name products. And we decided to have this conversation because he and Chris know each other, and Chris is on tour again with the Spin Doctors. Yes, it has been. Some decades, but he is on tour and he's still making music very much. But there is this real conversation about staying relevant, about, you know, how now in this day and age, especially with social media, how do you get your stuff out there?
[00:02:18] So Chris came to my house, and he drove up, and we decided we were gonna have lunch, have this conversation. So here it is, and we begin where John and I were waiting on Chris's arrival. This is so fun because Chris Barron, who is the lead singer of the Spin Doctors, the legendary rock group from the nineties, is coming over.
[00:02:41] He's coming up to Connecticut. He's driving from New York. In his Subaru. In his Subaru. And he's gonna join us here because we're gonna talk to him about what the spin doctors are up to now, what he's doing. But what's been funny for me is that over the past year and a half, Chris and I have come to know each other through these random meetings.
[00:03:00] It happened at a golf tournament where we kept running into each other and then. When we were hosting our event that we do in support of colorectal cancer awareness, they had, someone had to bow out at the last minute, and they said, You're gonna be so excited about who we got. And randomly, we're walking through the arena, and it was Chris Baron, and he brought the house down.
[00:03:16] But John, you've also been getting to know him, right?
[00:03:20] John: Yep, yep. Gotten to know Chris. I was fortunate enough to have Chris as our fifth golfer in our group. Yes. On our super rainy day. He was amazing. We had special pants, by the way, for our group. We have to show up in his own special pants.
[00:03:34] Lindsay: And did he keep those on? It was like he had ordered him pants, he wore his,
[00:03:37] John: No, he had his own pants. That just happened to work. So yeah. So we've been talking about branding and spin doctors and just what's next for them. Yeah.
[00:03:47] Lindsay: Hi! How are you doing? How are you?
[00:03:50] Chris: I should have done a handspring in or something.
[00:03:52] Surprise. I used to be able to do. Should probably still be able to.
[00:03:54] Lindsay: Oh, you wanna try?
[00:03:55] Chris: I might hurt myself.
[00:03:56] Lindsay: I don't wanna be liable for that.
[00:03:51] Chris: I need to do a few toe touches. I could do downward facing dog.
[00:04:05] Lindsay: So good to see you. Thank you so much.
[00:04:07] Chris: It's always so much more fun to do this stuff when someone says action.
[00:04:11] Lindsay: So, Chris, catch everybody up to your latest projects and what you're working on.
[00:04:15] Chris: Spin Doctors are still together.
[00:04:19] and, we are, we have a record. It's a really entertaining, amusing record. I think it's the best record we've made since Pocket Full of Kryptonite, our first and most successful record.
[00:04:34] And we're just having a great moment in the band. We're all kind of like at this point in our lives where we have a tremendous appreciation for the roles that we've played in each other's lives, the fun that we've had together as a band, and the way we play together, like some of your listeners..
[00:04:56] Viewers might not like, might just know our hits, but those three guys are three of the best players of their era.
[00:05:07] Lindsay: Musicians, musically talented.
[00:05:10] Chris: It's musically talented. And there's this ongoing musical conversation that, that, when you're in a band, it's like being married, you it's like a marriage, it's like an artistic marriage, and it just goes on and on and you have that thing, where there's like that great Thornton Wilder quote from Our Town where he's talking about marriage and he's I thought. That's like your mother and me would run out of things to talk about in a week, and here we are all these years later, and we still have stuff to talk about.
[00:05:37] And like people are, I think one thing that people always wonder about being in a band is if you have a song that's a hit and you play it night after night, does that get boring? And it's when you're in a band like Spin Doctors, it isn't boring because we are constantly inside the music.
[00:05:56] There's this like conversation going on where we're subtly like pushing and pulling and making small, little internal comments on the music that we're answering to each other. And it's not anything like that. The crowd would necessarily hear it as an effervescence and a spontaneous sort of feeling inside the music.
[00:06:17] But we hear it as a very clear demonstration of listening to each other and responding in these very subtle ways. So, being in the moment, is it like, yeah, you're like in the moment. So you're singing like, little Miss Can't Be Wrong. And, you do a, Eric does a subtle little variation on a, riff.
[00:06:41] And I hear that. And so I'll respond like maybe rhythmically to that just by varying what I'm doing very slightly. So he does something in the music, and then I do something in the music. It's all very subtle, but
[00:06:56] Lindsay: And the payoff is it, like the payoff keeps it new
[00:06:59] Chris: And we're just yeah.
[00:06:59] And we're like glancing at each other. I hear you, and then not even looking at each other and just being like, I'm just like singing, and he does something. And I say through the music, I heard what you just did. And he's okay, well, I'm gonna do another thing. And then I threw the music.
[00:07:17] I look over at him and smile. Or yeah, sometimes it's just a way of locking together, where like Aaron is playing the rhythm and you can play something with the same rhythm, but you can put like an emphasis on a certain beat, on a certain moment in the music.
[00:07:39] So one person is placing an emphasis on a certain moment in the music, and then you join in that emphasis. And then another person in the band joins in on that emphasis. Or like offsets that emphasize AhAhhere's a downbeat and you hit like the upbeat in a way that it sounds, it feels like a, like jumping off of a diving board.
[00:08:02] Does this make any sense?
[00:08:03] Lindsay: So you guys are having this awesome, amazing, high-level fun conversation, and all of us are just like, yes. Yes.
[00:08:13] ChrisYeahah. Is that what you mean? Yeah, exactly. It's sickening the can. It's a lot like kick the can..
[00:08:18] Lindsay: Like the real game or kick, yeah.
[00:08:20] Chris: The game when you're like a kid,
[00:08:21] Lindsay: I love that game so much.
[00:08:22] Chris: When you're a, the, I think the best version of that game is like that thing when you're a kid and you're just walking down the street and there's like a rock or a can or whatever in the sidewalk and you're having a conversation and the conversation, you're talking about school or whatever, people that you know and stuff, but you're also kicking that can, and then as time goes on, like the rules emerge about kicking the can.
[00:08:48] And you're like, for this part of the walk, we're gonna kick the can really hard, and the can will go a long way. And then we'll walk up to the can, and then you'll kick it. And then this part of the thing, I kick the can twice, and you kick the can twice, and you have these different things, kick it a little ways, or then the can spins off the sidewalk.
[00:09:12] You're like, together make that decision. Are we just gonna leave that can behind and look for another thing to kick? Or is somebody gonna step off the sidewalk and kick the can and bring it back into the game again? And that's it, it's sort of like that with the musical ideas that are sort of floating.
[00:09:27] John: I find it so interesting that this is all happening on a completely different level within your head. And the audience can barely recognize it because, as a band, they want there to be a place you could go to, which could sour it for the audience. You've gotta maintain your recall, your sound, and the experience that they had from the past.
[00:09:48] Yeah, meanwhile, you are constantly evolving it to a new place to entertain yourselves. Yes. And to amp it up. Yeah. But the crowd has to recognize it, as this is what I came to hear. And
[00:09:56] Chris: That's, I think that's like what I, I don't want to be like pretentious. And call rock and roll like art.
[00:10:03] But if you are the kind of person who likes to think of everything as art, like life is an art, yeah. An art form. Then that's the art, like screwing around enough to amuse yourself while not messing it up for the outside observer or
[00:10:21] Lindsay: Love that definition,
[00:10:22] Chris: pushing it far enough to be amusing to you and even making it imperceptible for the audience.
[00:10:29] Lindsay: Yeah.
[00:10:30] Chris: That's the art of it.
[00:10:31] Lindsay: And so it's, and that can be in many different art forms where that same experience applies. Yes. Right. And which is so interesting, and people are probably like, okay, how does this pairing and this matchup make sense? But it does because John and your branding, but, and it's also interesting 'cause you are the expert of sorts.
[00:10:50] Relevance, I guess. Right. The, and things like that. That makes sense. Does this apply? Does what he's saying apply to your world?
[00:10:57] John: Oh, a hundred percent. So, so, so what I do when I sit around with Chris, and when I met Chris, it was incredibly interesting just to sit back and listen to the story.
[00:11:06] And my idea is, how do you take something and a story, tell it through visuals?
[00:11:11] If you couldn't hear anything, which is the opposite of what you do, you're creating stuff that's heard.
[00:11:17] And what I find really interesting about it is that people will fall in love with a singular idea of what something is.
[00:11:25] So a piece of art that Chris creates, right? It could be a lyric, a piece of a lyric in a song that everyone loves, that one part, they love it, they want to hear it. Or I'll create a piece of art and someone will fall in love with it and think that's the end of it. What you just created is perfect.
[00:11:40] Meanwhile, in my head, maybe you have this. I've got like a hundred other extensions of what I want to do from that nugget.
[00:11:47] And so you start to create them and people fall in love with it, and then they find more within it, and it just continues to grow. Yeah. Which I think is how you approach your music and your style without a doubt. And your performance without a doubt.
[00:11:58] Chris: I mean, one of the things I always say about songwriting is that what I'm doing as a songwriter, I basically don't think most people listen to the lyrics. And lyrics are my thing. And I always say I don't write lyrics because I think everybody is listening to them.
[00:12:17] I write them. I work so hard on them, not because I don't want somebody to look into them and be like, these are garbage. If, for the 5% of people who get super into the lyrics and want to know every word that's going on, I want them to be like, Oh, this is. This is cool.
[00:12:38] John: This is how I make, this is how I should write lyrics.
[00:12:40] Chris: And you want it to be like, you're saying about, about a, like a, when you create something, you want to have that like fractal kind of thing where the deeper you can go, and more detail will emerge. The closer you get to it, the less it loses resolution as you look closely.
[00:12:58] It has more meaning as you look deeper into it, but if you don't have to, it still works. If you're just kind of curs, give it a cursory list that still sounds good,
[00:13:11] Lindsay: So, and for people that are like huge fans, it 92 is when Pocket Full of Encryption Night came out, right? So the early nineties, during that era, two princes that the whole, all the shebang was going on, MTV, right?MTV was a huge part of it.
[00:13:28] Chris: Yeah.
[00:13:28] Lindsay: Was that what that experience was like?
[00:13:33] Chris: It's such a good question and. I think, not to get too deep about it, but we're in this kind of post-lockdown, post-COVID moment where everybody had to kind of reassess, what it is to, do you want to, do you wanna work as hard as you do?
[00:13:54] What do you want? A more like money stuff rich life, or a more like time rich life, And so I look back at that period of time and it was extremely exciting and very stimulating, kind of scary at times because you're, going from this like vagabond, like broke lifestyle to like having something suddenly having something to lose, so it was like, an adventure and like, all adventures. There was a lot of discomfort and. sleeping in a van or being far away from the people that you love, and feeling more and more alienated as you're catapulted into this rarefied lifestyle that none of your friends can really understand.
[00:14:51] And like none of your family, this is so great, and you're like, I'm fucking terrified. I'm so scared right now. Kind. How do you get over that, though?
[00:15:01] John: How do you get up on stage and perform like that?
[00:15:04] Chris: That is the part that has always been the part that you finally feel normal.
[00:15:10] because that's your thing. Because I'm aupside-downwn person, like I'm, not like normal people., Most people want to. I'm perfectly happy, like on a couch, like stroking a cat. But I also want to do the thing that most people would rather die than do, which is get up in front of people and sing.
[00:15:26] And so I, that part has always been the easy part. It's always been like, oh, showtime, I finally feel normal, which is weird because most people are like, this is the scariest thing. And, plenty of performers have a lot of stage fright too. I don't like the hour leading up to performing.
[00:15:43] Lindsay: Really.
[00:15:43] Chris: 'cause I just want to go on, I just want
[00:15:46] Lindsay: What do you do during that hour?
[00:15:47] Chris: Complain about how I hate that hour. Basically, we have, we have like at this point we have, like a scotch 15 minutes before we go on, a nd we just, we don't drink before a show. We're like, go on stage and we're prepared.
[00:16:06] We're. Not inebriated, like very professional. But 15 minutes before the show, we all poured scotch, had a little toast, and just sat there and sipped the scotch. So what I kind of do in that hour leading up to it is I don't think about the amount of time until we're going on, I'm like, I think about the amount of time until we have a scotch,
[00:16:29] John: You should write a song about that. I call it scotch.
[00:16:32] Chris: So yeah. It's 20 minutes to scotch time. Yeah.
[00:16:35] Lindsay: I love it. So when, and was there a, like a sort of a moment where, or a timeframe or an incident where you remember that feeling, that sort of, fear for the first time? Oh, we've made it, and this is,
[00:16:48] Chris: You know what,
[00:16:48] Lindsay: Like unknown.
[00:16:49] Chris: Like going back to one of the best things that ever happened to me was, I grew up with John Popper from the V Traveler.
[00:16:58] And he was always like a couple of steps ahead of me musically. Success-wise. And so it was great because I always had John to talk to. And this is a kind of an oblique answer to your question, but the thing that you're really afraid of, I think, when you have stage fright, is not being ready to go on.
[00:17:21] And what if I forget the words? What if I get on stage and I feel sluggish? What if I just can't deliver tonight? And of course, like over the years, time goes on, and you're like, at pretty much every gig I've ever done, I've been able to maintain the standard of what, however good I am, I've been that good every night.
[00:17:40] So whatever. But early on, I told John God, I don't know if I'm gonna be okay tonight. I'm like just yawning and yawning. And John was like, yeah, I always yawn a lot before kicking. I used to think that it meant I wasn't gonna be ready to go on.
[00:18:00] Lindsay: You're making Jesse, you said that, and it made you yawn, it made you
[00:18:03] Chris: Yeah, of course. That's
[00:18:05] John: A chemical thing, isn't it? You're just getting oxygen.
[00:18:07] Chris: Yeah, he's he, he was like, I used to think I wouldn't be ready to go on. And I was like, oh, okay, cool. So that's normal. So there's a lot of just.
[00:18:13] Lindsay: Oh, that's really interesting.
[00:18:15] Chris: There aren't a lot of people to be like, that's normal, and it's not a job. And you would understand this. It's not a job where you can be like it. Most people's jobs are like, guys, and kind of a sad, strange mood. Today I'm gonna hang out by the latter cooler and everybody leave me alone.
[00:18:33] I'll do the photocopying today. I don't even know how offices work, but it sounds like something that somebody would say, I've never been in an office in my life. I don't know if people do that, but you know what I mean? But I know people go in and you see on TV, people are like, oh, I'm in a bad mood, everybody leave me alone.
[00:18:46] Right. But you can't do that. You know how that is. Yeah. You can't show up with the mic in your hand and be like, you gotta be like ready to go. And you have to be like ready to kind of,
[00:18:55] Lindsay: or to your point about John Popper, sorry, from Blues Traveler, is that, to have that, to what you just said, that struck me because I'm like, you get to a certain point where you're doing what you do and you can't kind of ask, or I feel like you can't kind of be like, Hey, what's, there are certain things that I don't, you don't wanna seem like you don't know your stuff or you're, it's hard to find that person that you can be like, Hey, for real.
[00:19:17] Know, tell me about this. How do I navigate this? What's right. So sometimes that comes into it too. Do you and Craig talk about that stuff? Yeah.
[00:19:25] Chris: Not to get too personal, but
[00:19:26] Lindsay: way. No, we do.
[00:19:27] Chris: I'm interested 'cause my wife is also like a singer, so we talk shock. You're in the scene. Yeah,
[00:19:31] Lindsay: We do. And what's funny is that John and his wife work in the same office, and they work together.
[00:19:36] Yeah, so I can't escape. We, but none of us can. Right. So we talk about that a lot, and we talk about, like, for him, I think the circle becomes smaller, and you find. Certain people who are mentors, like you're saying, like you can look up to them, they've been through it a little bit ahead of you, and so you're able to lean on them.
[00:19:53] So that is what he does well. He also thought, It's very clear to me the things that Melvin does well that I wish I were more like,
[00:20:03] Delegating really means compartmentalizing your time. Yeah. Like we talked about, the fact that he's pretty bam. And I'm like, oh, look at that butterfly. Right?
[00:20:12] That's just how I am. That's the beauty of it. More upside down, more right. Yeah, yeah. So sometimes it's, that's great. Sometimes it's like tension. But yeah, it's really fascinating.
[00:20:24] Chris: Lindsay and I are similar too, 'cause I'll be like, my wife is, like what I would call a very together musician.
[00:20:31] She can, we have this great expression, like she can read fly shit at 50 feet. Like, she can really read music really well. I can decipher music. Yeah. So I'm always just like. Always, my wife is a better musician than I am. And she's what the hell are you talking about? You're like the lead singer of this band, yeah, that you have platinum records in our bathroom. Like, how, but she is, she's sort of more together. And I really admire that about her. And shebut you're like a weird sort of unicorn, I think that's like the, I have that same oh, look at that butterfly kind of thing.
[00:21:10] Lindsay: Yeah. Yeah. But
[00:21:12] Chris: There's a lot of power to that.
[00:21:15] John: How about you and, no, I'm gonna say, but I don't have the pressure of having to perform. I always wonder, though. I question myself all the time, and I ask Melvin all the tim,,e too, how do you do it? Like, how do you turn yourself on for that every day or for multiple performances in a row?
[00:21:32] And it's funny because Chris says, when I had reseen Chris at the foundational concert, yeah. I didn't know you were playing. I was standing in the back of the crowd, and you came up, and all I said in my head was, Wait, what is going on here. From my perspective, I was just like, and it just kept getting better.
[00:21:58] And then I looked, and I was just like, who is lighting this place on fire right now? The energy was just, it was completely, you have a level of energy, which seems absolutely consistent from 2020 years ago. Yeah. The same level.
[00:22:14] Lindsay: Well, like the same, the guy that liked the images of you and the hat, and just a hat, that was a question I had, is you also, that was the time of grunge,
[00:22:26] And so what you guys did in those beginning stages when people really came to know you were doing was, what was that part of it? Like that, timing was that? An easy thing or
[00:22:38] Chris: It was cool, I'll always be grateful to Nirvana because they kind of kicked the door down for everybody else.
[00:22:44] It was, we're coming out of a moment where music was much more stratified and much more together, and people wearing outfits, and you had Madonna and New Kids on the Block, and it was much more of a,
[00:22:56] Lindsay: Oh God, I still have their pillowcases upstairs.
[00:22:58] Chris: Yeah. Yeah. It was very, it was very, like at the time I had, I look back now and I'm like, that was really cool stuff.
[00:23:05] Beautifully arranged. And what they were doing was like a really elaborate, cool thing at the time. I was kind of a punk rock, like Savage, coming out of my teenage years into my twenties, and just looking at things very differently. So we wanted to kind of bust that down, and Nirvana did that.
[00:23:33] Nirvana was like, six months. A year ahead of spin Doctors. So suddenly it's one of those moments where this ragtag band of, like, grunge guys comes out of nowhere, Seattle, like nobody's thinking about Seattle, and suddenly everybody's looking for the next thing, which is not gonna be like a put-together, rehearsed
.[00:23:59] auditioned a kind of group, they're looking for bands that are kind of different. So that was, they made things a lot easier for us. And,
[00:24:11] John: Did you have a different sound going into that, though, or after seeing the Rise in Success? We have a nirvana. You had a Pearl Jam coming out of Seattle.
[00:24:20] There was a scene there. Did you question? Where you’re performing at that time, or so, I see this level of success. Should I borrow some of what they're doing?
[00:24:30] Chris: Yeah, that's a great question. And the answer is absolutely not. We were like true believers in our own thing. And I'm not saying that we weren't coming out of a lot of different influences, but our influences weren't coming from what was going on at the time.
[00:24:46] we were, first of all, we were too busy doing what we were doing to be paying a ton of attention, particularly the kind of scholarly attention that it takes to pick up on, we were already, we were already on the same kind of energetic, we were all already coming at music very aggressively, like the grunge guys.
[00:25:05] So we were from New York City, so we were coming in, out, we're coming into these bars, and they were like, This is a really interesting, we had this conversation about marketing. Yeah. We were playing these bars on Bleecker Street, and the owners were like, and the managers were like, get people like.
[00:25:24] Excited, get people rocking or you're fired. And at the end of the night, they would tell us how much booze we sold. So at the end of the night, they'd be like, You, good job. You guys sold $3,500 worth of booze. We'd be like, Is that good? And they were like, well, boos Travelers sold $4,700 of booze like a couple of days ago, but nobody sells as much as Boos Travelers..
[00:25:48] And Joan Osborne sold like $2,400 worth of booze, and she's not fired. So you guys are doing fine with 3,500 bucks.
[00:25:55] Lindsay: That was your measure. He said, " Is it a good,
[00:25:55] Chris: So we were like, actually, at the end of the night, they're telling us how much booze we had sold. So to go back to your question, I very quickly went from being this kid, a teenager, like sitting in my bedroom, like writing songs, mooning about a girl, to being like.
[00:26:16] Okay. Big, fat, funky booty. I gotta, we're in this room, we need to get these people going. We need to get them excited and buying liquor. And, so what I realized was that we were like, we were a lead loss. We were an attraction that was supposed to bring people into these rooms to sell beer.
[00:26:37] And that's what, that's, come on. That's what it all is, any of us are really, I, we're basically like, we have our own artistic objectives. That's so interesting. We have the things we wanna say. We have, we want to throw like elbows when we can. We want to make people happy and entertain, but in the end of the day, like they're gonna cut to like the Bud Light commercial.
[00:26:58] And that's what it's really all about in the like world and society that we're living in. And that's kind of what art is always gonna be like, kind of put in the way of people to satisfy an agenda. And then, meanwhile, the artists are like trying to get their licks in as best they can within those confines.
[00:27:21] But I realized very quickly that if I could do something that was gonna sell booze, then I could sneak my thing, my message in there. But, and the better, the more booze I sold, the more I was gonna be able to do what I wanted to do. So
[00:27:33] Lindsay: That's kind of like when you hear bands, I think it was, I'm trying to remember if it was Zach Brown Band, maybe, or someone who was saying that.
[00:27:41] They would open up for someone, they would play the covers that they needed to play, but they would slide their songs in the middle. Right. And get the people to kind of go along that way. But as you were talking, I was thinking it's not that different these days from people posting something and going for the likes. You're thinking about, okay, what's gonna be good for that? Right. Rather than just maybe the freedom to be authentic with everything, but really the authentic stuff, and
[00:28:07] Chris: What's really going on? Yeah. Those people are being algorithmically forward so that people stay on the app for longer and more data.
[00:28:18] More people's data gets farmed, and there's a whole other thing; we all think we're like getting all these likes and we're building a following and stuff like that. But there's a, bstrata of, the real business that is mining people's data, keeping people on the, Keeping people on the app, keeping, eyes like dragged across the, and so meanwhile, like the two are not exclusive.
[00:28:40] It's no,t it's not rendering, whatever content you're putting out there, it's not rendering that null and void. You're still getting your thing out there, but underneath it all, it's serving like another larger business purpose. That's part of the scheme of the society we live in.
[00:28:58] Well, art is, I mean, it's the impetus for marketing and sales, a nd ultimately what's interesting about mining the data, because while the data is working in a way to feed you, yeah
[00:29:09] It's also working in a way to elevate you. Yeah. So behind the scenes, which is really neat. We've worked, we've done some work together, so I can see everything that's happening. And then I can tailor the marketing based on the feedback that we're getting on the art you're producing.
[00:29:25] So it's, you get to create art, but now we have the tools these days,yeahah. To focus, elevate it, and pinpoint where your audience is, how it's growing, what they respond to, and how you can continue to build that for yourself, for your artistic endeavors, and for your marketing and sales endeavors.
[00:29:42] John: For you, money that goes in your pocket.
[00:29:44] Chris: I said marketing and sales instead of money. Yeah.
[00:29:47] Lindsay: So, yeah. And I, because I am curious about how you define, what is the approach of Spin Doctors, right?. To, for the marketing and for, just to give you the best shot at, I don't wanna use the word, and I wanna ask you that.
[00:30:01] Not reinvention, but it's like a Sure, yeah. Right. But all but before that, you guys have stayed together this whole time, correct? Yeah.
[00:30:11] Chris: Our bass player isn't in the band. He was like, during COVID, he wouldn't get tested. He wouldn't like to wear a mask. He wouldn't get vaccinated.
[00:30:23] And so at some point,shehe actually was like, get Jack Daley, who is our bass player now, and we've all known Jack forever. I used to live in the same building as him, and he played withLenny Kravitz for a really long time. So Lenny had those guys basically on retainer.
[00:30:47] So when they weren't out on the road, they were dressed like they would be on stage. So, like us, it's funny because we were neighbors. Jack and I were neighbors, and we'd see each other in the elevator, and I would be like, This guy. Amazing. He'd be in the elevator with a vest on. He's like rail skinny, with like laces and leather pants that were like bell bottoms, laced up the side, and like long, pointy, like snake skin boots.
[00:31:13] I'm like, this guy is a man. And I knew he was an incredible bass player, too. And, meanwhile, years later, like him, we talked about this, and he was looking at me. I probably had just done a bong hit, and my hair was all messed up, and I had like ink stains all over my finger from writing poetry and a fountain pen.
[00:31:33] And he is so, he is looking at me like, wow, this guy's a specimen too. So now that's Beck Jack. Jack is, Jack's, like Jack's in the band now. And we made the most recent record at his studio. And, so yeah, it's, and I'm sorry that things didn't work out with Mark after all of these years.
[00:31:55] That was like a really heartbreaking, I like, yeah, that really was. Well, you said it's like a marriage. Sad. Yeah. So it was, a shame. tThat's mark is a person that, like I've known since I was 20 years old, for a person I've, in like the crack era in New York, he was like a guy who like, I was like hanging with who not only were we in a band together, we were in like dangerous situations walking around, like scary like neighborhoods and like protecting our gear from theft and it's, very primal kind of stuff.
[00:32:29] And being on stage together is being on stage, your brain doesn't know the difference between being on stage and. A very dire situation. You walk out and see, even though I want to be there, being on stage is like tons of people in front of you. Somebody could throw something at you and break your face, or you know what I mean?
[00:32:49] Lindsay: It's never happened. Did you ever get something?
[00:32:50] Chris: I have, yeah. I got my nose split open in Spain by, like, a big chunk of ice. Somebody like hit me dead on the nose, I, I was like bleeding. Were they trying to reinforce…
[00:33:02] John: The kryptonite thing?
[00:33:03] Chris: It was a motorcycle race.
[00:33:05] John: How do you, when you have chemistry and synergy between band members who have been there, and one leaves or moves on, and you bring another one in?
[00:33:13] Honestly, do you try to duplicate that, or do they enhance what you have?
[00:33:16] Chris: No, you don't want to try and duplicate it because you can't, it's like trying to carve someone's fingerprint into another person's hand, but, and I actually honestly, when Mark wasn't gonna be in the band anymore, I was at a place where I was like. We've occasionally had one of the guys have something else to do, and we've had a sub I decided if there's a sub, if we need a sub, let's not take the gig because it's not the same without everybody.
[00:33:47] And when Mark was gonna leave the band, I was like, Alright, break up the band. And Aaron, who's worked with Jack a lot, Aaron, our drummer, who's worked with our new bass player, Jack, was like, Look, let's finish out the summer. We've got six or seven more gigs booked. Let's finish out the summer with Jack, and then we'll decide what we want to do.
[00:34:12] and it just turns out that I think Jack is the one guy in the world who could have stepped in, because he's just one, he is just an incredible player. But not every incredible player could come in and play all this material in their own. Jack, I mean, basically, what you wanna do, sorry, to answer your question more directly, what you want to do in a situation like that is come in and nod to the person that came before you and honor kind of stylistically.
[00:34:45] John: On brand feel.
[00:34:46] Chris: Yeah. The feel of what they're doing, and then kind of bring your own thing to it. And that wouldn't work with everybody, but it's really worked well with Jack.
[00:34:55] Lindsay: Have you gotten a sense of what public perception is of where the band is now?
[00:35:01] Chris: I mean, in terms of the mark thing, I think a few people, there are a few like diehards that are just like, never, would never be happy with somebody else. But most people are, most people don't even know? Yeah, 'cause most people don't. Most people, I'm the lead singer, and if anybody knew that someone's name, they'd know my name. But most people don't know my name. So, let alone, most people don't even know. But the people who do know, I think most of them, like there's overwhelming Approval. Honestly, Spin Doctors have this tremendous name recognition almost every time, like the name comes up, people are like, Oh, I love you guys. We have a ton of goodwill, a ton of people know who we are, but a lot of times, like you, people are like, So what do you do?
[00:35:48] I'm like, I'm a musician. What kind of musician? Rock and roll. Are you in a band? Yes. What's the name of your band? Spin Doctors. And then they like poop. They're just like, what? That's crazy. I love you guys. And then they say Are you guys still together? Right. Which is kind of maddening.
[00:36:04] So there are a lot of people who do know we're still together, but that's
[00:36:08] Lindsay: Why ist maddening? What do,
[00:36:11] Chris: I guess it's like any business owner would be like, I want everybody to know that we're still making the thing that everybody likes. People like what we make. It makes me wanna run around screaming that people like what we make, want what we make, but don't even know that we're still making it.
[00:36:31] John: And this is, here the branding and marketing, yeah. Comes into all of this. Yeah. Yeah. I think people hear music, they see a record, they see the album cover, they see a logo, they see whatever it is for that time period, and for however long it lasts.
[00:36:44] And you have radio play, and then you and the band disappear in the past. Yeah. Right. There weren't social media channels. You couldn't push and put push content out. Yeah. You couldn't get fresh with what you were doing. It was probably up to the, you did this more than me, but to the record companies execs on what, how much they would market you.
[00:37:03] So I almost felt as though you came, you showed up, the music was great, and it became a piece of history.
[00:37:08] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[00:37:08] John: Whereas now you have the opportunity to not only tell that story like you're doing right now, but. Well, let people know that you're very much still here.
[00:37:18] Lindsay: I literally had this con like when you're talking about maddening and like when you say you wanna scream it.
There's something about that feeling when you're like, yes, I'm right. Yeah. Yeah. And you're like, I literally had this conversation yesterday with my therapist, and I'm just gonna be honest about this. Yeah, because we were like, I was like, I don't know what it is. Like I, I wanna talk sports.
[00:37:40] I, and she was like, Lindsay, are you doing that? And I was like, yes, in certain ways, but I don't think anyone knows that. Right. Which is a really weird thing to say. And she's,, but are you? Yeah. Well then, what? Right. So here’s the whole point. She got me to a good place, but I was like, there's just, it is a very interesting time.
And it's, I don't know that I'm making sense articulating, making sense, YeyeahArticul. But it's a weird feeling when you're like, oh yes, you're, you're still doing things in a certain way. And obviously mine's very different from songwriting and performing, yeah.
[00:38:13] On stage. But it's a freaking weird feeling.
[00:38:17] John: You said what you said to me, which I thought
[00:38:18] Lindsay: It's the thing of being seen.
[00:38:19] John: Sorry.
[00:38:20] Lindsay: Being seen.
[00:38:20] John: Yeah. Well, being seen. But then what he said to me is that people would think that you would stop writing music after you're done. Right. You're probably done and retired, and you made some music, and you're really happy with that.
[00:38:31] And that's the complete opposite. You're actually actively always writing, thinking. Yeah. You are creating music. And he said to me, Music hits me like a wall. I remember everything you say, by the way. I'm just, I'm actually not.
[00:38:43] Chris: everybody. Not everything. Everybody says just stuff that I'm storing.
[00:38:48] John: for future years.
[00:38:48] Lindsay: It hits you like a wall.
[00:38:49] John: It hits me like a wall. And you said you cannot listen when you listen to music. It all hits you at once.
[00:38:55] Chris: Music hits me like a stream of ideas.
[00:38:59] Lindsay: Well, like in a certain time of day or anytime. It can happen
[00:39:02] Chris: Anytime. Like I am, I went through a period of time where it was really hard for me to listen to recorded music because I hear the chord progression.
[00:39:09] I hear like it comes at me like a stream of musical ideas. Doesn't wa this doesn't wash over me like I think it does. A normal person, normal people hear music, and they just hear this like a wafting of sound, and it goes through.. Yeah. And they're just like. It's soothing, ng and they're just h . Here I go.
[00:39:29] I'm like, listen here, I go along. Or it's like a connection to a fee. li..ng
[00:39:33] John: It goes through in the emotion, and it leaves them, and it's over. Right. Whereas you get completely knocked over
[00:39:38] Chris: I hear like this chord progression. I hear the production of the, like that they used, like this particular kind of reverb on it.
[00:39:47] And I could picture, the worst thing is I could picture like. Some songs can picture the writing session where it was written. And I can picture like the writers being like, no, don't use that word. Use this word. Or I can, 'cause I'm just like, this is, I work with music since I was eight years old.
[00:40:04] So I hear, we're trained to be able to hear these ideas. Trained to be able to hear what the time signature is, and what key it is in? How did the notes all go together mathematically? So, my daughter years ago was like, Can I just put on the pop station? We're driving through LA. I was like, yeah.
[00:40:23] And she was like, I know you're not crazy about that kind of music. I was any, anything that you wanna listen to is fine. And she was like, 'cause I listened to the pop station and it just settles down in my brain, and it's the idea, I, and I was like. She goes, you know what I mean?
[00:40:39] I was like, I know what you mean, but all music comes at me like, like this string of ideas. Well,
[00:40:45] John: What fascinating. Well, this was a little bit fascinating, a bridge outta a conversation that we had. 'cause I had said to you, now there's nothing against the music that's coming out today. And some of the voice work and synthesize a work and how they feed their Yeah.
[00:40:57] But I had said to you, your music came from a time when it was real. It felt more real. The sound, the lyrics, the instruments. There was a computer.
[00:41:07] Chris: By real, you mean actually performed manually by a human being, performing it manually manufactured by that.
[00:41:14] John: Well, I felt like when you were up on stage, and I turned around and I said, What just happened?
[00:41:19] It's because I had a recall. It hit me like a wall. I said to myself, This sounds exactly like the way it sounded 20 years ago or whenever that was. And I said to Lindsay, Is there something to talk about? Like bringing back honest, genuine, clean, fun music, which I think everyone could use right now?
[00:41:39] and I thought about you because you were part of a generation that everyone remembers. It was good, it was clean, happy, fun music. It was a little cheeky, a little edgy. And you have a certain style. I called him the other day. I said, I, when after I listened to your music, I was just writing down things that came to mind, I was using his style, which is just writing down things that came to mind.
[00:42:07] And I said, You remind me of an elastic cake pop. He reminds me of an elastic cake pop. He was like, That's good. You need a shirt like that. Like cake pop. So, when have you noticed that when Chris gets real?ly
[00:42:19] Chris: Popsicles made with cake,
[00:42:21] John: But an elastic one. You know, like a Starbucks cake pop.
[00:42:24] Except it's bendy. That's him. So when he hits the stage or when he gets animated, and then yeah. Sweet and
[00:42:29] Chris: fluffy and elastic.
[00:42:31] John: Chris, he bounces. He has to bounce. You've gotta bounce. That's what you're thinking, and so that's something that is part of you, part of your brand. Nobody has that.
[00:42:40] Chris: To go back to something we were talking about earlier, you were talking about like the response to like grunge and to the stuff around you, I think of one of the things that you're alluding to now, and relates to what we were talking about before, is what people think of. People think of virtuosity, they think of just being able to play a million notes or do something super sophisticated and elaborate.
[00:43:07] But I think there's an aspect of virtuosity that is, being so fluent in what you do, so fluent in, in, in whatever your medium is that you can fully express your personality through that medium. So the idea of playing a guitar isn't necessarily being able to play a million notes, being able to play really fast, being able to play every scale.
[00:43:33] It's really more like you hear a guy like David Gilmore, he's not playing a million notes, but you hear David Gilmore and you can hear his personality coming through. And so when we were, like, when we were playing, that was our idea of virtuosity, to play so well that you could be yourself in the music, that yourself would come through.
[00:43:53] Your true self will come through. And so that's why we never really imitated anybody else, 'cause we were just trying to be so good at what we did play so well that we could be us. We weren't trying to be anybody else beyond that. We were really, actually trying to express a truth about ourselves.
[00:44:17] and it goes to what you're saying about talking about sports and stuff like that, that I think maybe what, maybe correct me if I'm wrong, but the idea is that your therapist is well, are you talking about sports? Are you expressing yourself? Are you doing anything?
[00:44:34] Are you doing it? Does it come naturally for you?
[00:44:35] Lindsay: Yes or no? It's yeah, but it's what you said, it's about the being seen piece, right? Yeah. I guess, yeah. '
[00:44:42] Chris: cause if it's going out into a void, then what's what is it? Right. What is it?
[00:44:46] Lindsay: And the way that things are changing and growing and morphing right now.
[00:44:50] It's a different, it's a unique time, like in our industry and certainly in yours, which is, I think why the. Why? Yeah. I'm curious about the approach that you guys now have with branding. Yeah, is it different? Is it like, what would you say it is?
[00:45:04] Chris: Well, you know, what's the same is 'cause we're, we're going out and we're doing these gigs and there's like a bunch of seven-year-olds to 25-year-olds who are like working their way up to the front and just glued to what we're doing.
[00:45:24] And that one, it's really encouraging, but two, what I think is happening is they're like these, there's no loops. There's nothing like this; this is just four people, like playing the crap out of their instruments. And it brings me back to when I was a kid, and I would go and see a band and just be like, glued to the band.
[00:45:49] 'cause they just were playing so great. But it wasn't special. I mean, it was special that. To have a band that played great, but that was what a good band was back then. It was great. It was just people who were great players that was like, you didn't have any other option. You didn't have, like, loops and other kinds of bells and whistles.
[00:46:08] It was great. Bands started with great playing. Now that's sort of exceptional because there's so much other stuff that can be happening besides great playing when you see a band playing. So these kids are just like looking, so what's, what hasn't changed is that desire to like just play our asses off and play like beautifully with a great big tone.
[00:46:31] And to keep that like bubbling, effervescent fun underneath it. That's a product of that communication between us. And we realize that we're kind of in this, we're not so old that. We're in the uncle zone, not the grandfather zone, you know what I mean? Not the dad zone. We're like in the uncle zone.
[00:46:53] We're like, young people are looking at us, going This is cool, what these guys are doing. So we realize we can be a conduit, to cool, to that sort of 20th-century way of playing. But then there are a thousand other modern tools that are available for promotion, which is where you bring somebody like
[00:47:13] John: Yeah.
[00:47:13] But which is where I think everyone can make the mistake because, you can tell the, you can be completely over-branded and people can see right through it.
[00:47:21] Chris: Yeah.
[00:47:22] John: So, and I think a lot of people aren't telling the story the right way. Really true, authentic story that you have, that you both have.
[00:47:30] and that's the control that you have within branding because everyone can see through it. It should be told truthfully and honestly, and while you're being humble, really tell your story, and I think you have it to tell. To continue, there is an absolutely gigantic market of a younger generation that wants real music.
[00:47:52] Lindsay: So what would you say from your time spent is Chris slash the Spin Doctor's real story, or are you saying it's Chris's story that you think that lean into?
[00:48:03] John: With a lot of the newer music, newer bands, no one knows if they'll stand the test of time, and a good percentage of them don't seem to be able to maintain that.
[00:48:14] They're in and out pretty quickly. You've stood the test of time, you have incredible history and stories, and what you, what Chris has been able to do is maintain his sound and energy throughout your entire career, and sex appeal. I mean, that was the thing. You tried golfing with this guy.
[00:48:32] It's impossible.
[00:48:33] Lindsay: And I dunno if my uncles could bounce
[00:48:35] around like you do. So that's just
[00:48:38] Chris: jump a lot of rope.
[00:48:39] John: Well, I think that's also part of the energy, right? Like, you have a youthful energy bands lose that. Yeah.
[00:48:43] Chris: Yeah.
[00:48:43] John: People have gotten old, or they're on stage and they look stiff. You don't have that.
[00:48:47] So I think you have the ability to connect with all different ages in a really humble, genuine way. And I think that the branding should be as honest for your brand.
[00:48:58] And I don't know, I don't honestly know what you get these days. Like back in the day, did you have a logo and an album and a record company and a record and music play on?
[00:49:07] Radio stations ending and marketing to have
[00:49:09] Chris: Everything we had. We had Sony music, yeah. And, the funny thing was that we were on this like worldwide juggernaut label, and we weren't getting the love. We'd pull into a town, and they used to have these kinds of local papers.
[00:49:24] You look in the paper and there'd be like, we were on the same label, as Pearl Jam. So Pearl Jam would have a full page ad, and we'd be like, there'd be like nothing about us. And it happened over, you're like,
[00:49:33] John: Oh, Pearl Jam, I'll get you,
[00:49:39] Chris: And then at one point, a guy named Jim McGinn wrote this, a radio guy from a station called EQX.
[00:49:46] He wrote this, some passionate kind of letter to the lab, and was like. You guys are crazy. This is one of the best bands out there today, one of the best national acts, and you're just like sitting on this band and you're not doing anything. And they were like, there, there was, they had a promotion for Tung Baby.
[00:50:04] Yeah. And, more people came in and bought a pocket full of kryptonite in this, in the record store. Wow. Then bought Tung Baby during YouTube's Yeah. Oct baby product. And then, he just had all these like stories of there was a club called Bogeys, in Albany, New York. And he was like, we went to see the band there, we were on the guest list, but as we were walking past, there was a line around the block, and it was 20 below, the snow was coming down like an inch an hour.
[00:50:32] And people were standing in the snow to see these guys. You guys are nuts. And, a couple of other things happened right around that time. And then Sony. Turned on the big Sony music like Juggernaut. Wow. Really? Yes. And six months later, we were on Saturday Night Live and, like a week or two after that, we went platinum.
[00:50:54] So there's, it works in, in, in answer to your question. Yeah. These media companies have a tremendous amount of power. And, also, there are other stories like Phish, where people do it on their own. Yep. And, but you know, I'm friends with those guys, a nd we always have these conversations where I'm just like, you guys did 13 nights at Madison Square Garden?
[00:51:18] That is so cool. And they're like, you guys have a billion listens on Spotify. You have a song that, like, has been listened to hundreds and hundreds of millions of times. That's so cool. So we have this mutual kind of admiration. Fascinating. What does success look like?
[00:51:43] Lindsay: So, was there a moment in that where it was like this sort of, aha, okay, here we go, we made it. That was just like a memory that you have that was pretty incredible.
[00:51:51] Chris: SNL was so we do Saturday Night Live, and I, I could just go on and on about that whole experience 'cause it's it's 50 stories in one, but afterwards, there was a party, I think at a place that used to be really cool in New York City. I don't think it's there anymore. It's called La Bar Bat. And they always have, they always have a party after the show. So it's there. And Joe Pesci was the host, nd so he's there, and Robert DeNiro and Martin Scorsese were at the show.
[00:52:27] I don't think they were at the party. And I'm like, what am I gonna order at the bar? What's the most Rockstar thing I could get at the bar? And I was like, I'm gonna order, I'm gonna go over to the bar,and I'm gonna order. I'm like 22 years old, I don't even know how, I don't even know what I'm doing here.
[00:52:49] I don't even know how to be like, you're 22, 22, 23, something like that. And so I go up to the bar and I'm like, I'm gonna order a bottle of V cco and I'm just gonna walk around the party with a bottle of Viv cco. Yeah. And, let's see if he gives me a bottle of VCOSo I get to the bar, I'm like, I'll have a bottle of Viv cco Pop hands me a bottle of v cco.
[00:53:11] I'm just like, walking around. So I'm talking to Joe Pesci, whom I'd met during the show. That's a whole funny story. And then, I look over and Dan Aykroyd is across the room, and I'm like, oh, I'm gonna go meet Dan Aykroyd. But I was like, what am I, what is my, what's my. DePuy, what's my point of departure with him?
[00:53:32] Well, he's a harmonica player. I'm friends with John Popper. I'll go up, I'll bring up John Popper, and then we can start having, I feel like I have a pickup line or something to talk to.
[00:53:40] Lindsay: I love that you prepped your yeah in your head conversation.
[00:53:44] Chris: Walk up to him with my bottle of CCO, and he turns around, and I go, Hi, I'm Chris.
[00:53:49] I'm the lead singer of the Spin Doctors. And he goes, I know. And I was like, and that was it. I was like, Dan Aykroyd knows who I am.
[00:53:58] Lindsay: Wow.
[00:53:58] Chris: Yeah. Like I have arrived. It's all. That was the first day of the rest of my life. Kind of, the first moment of the rest of my life.
[00:54:10] Lindsay: That's wild.
[00:54:11] Chris: A lot of work went into that moment. Yeah. A lot of like vans, but for sure, I mean, there's another story 'cause I think this moment in time. Is this moment where everybody's sort of like looking around at what is like affluence or what everybody's like, kind of taken a moment to, we all jumped off of like the gerbil wheel for a minute during COVID and everybody's do I want to get back on that wheel or do, I want to make another wheel or do I just want no wheel at all?
[00:54:45] What is it all about? And there's another moment in my career that goes further back, when I was like 2021 and we were playing all these clubs in New York. This is the era when we were doing these clubs where they were telling us how much we're making, and we broke into the weekends at those clubs.
[00:55:03] The club was two clubs. It was Mondo, Connie, and Mondo Perso. And we played like a weekend night, and they paid $500 on a weekend night. So, we split the money between the four guys, and we have a manager, whose name is Jason, and he got his a hundred bucks. We all get a hundred bucks.
[00:55:22] I hadn't had a hundred bucks since I'd moved to the city. So I had been like, basically eating like a hot dog, or I was eating like one meal a day, or eating like ramen or something like that. So, we go to this place, the Triumph Diner that's on Bleecker Street. It's gone now, but it used to be this diner on Bleecker Street.
[00:55:44] Sit down, look at the menu. I'm like, do I want a fried egg sandwich, which is what I usually got when I was in a restaurant, 'cause they were like $2 and 50 cents back then or something. And I was like, What am I gonna eat? And then I was like, I have a hundred dollars in my pocket. So I ordered like a T-bone steak and like a bunch of sides.
[00:56:02] I was like, I'll have a side of cole slaw, like I didn't even want cole slaw. I was just kind of, 'cause I could afford, they're like, I got a milkshake because milkshakes were like, the price was more than what I usually paid for an entire meal. And I swear to God, there were a lot of moments subsequent to that.
[00:56:20] We had some big paydays and we. Had some huge concerts and there were moments of like serious, like money or, things like opening for people or like playing with people. Was that, I mean, the, we open up for the Stones. We, there was a moment where we're on the tour bus after a gig and our, we've been paid partly in cash and there was like a wad of cash, like this big, and the, there were like moments, we'd signed, we signed deals where the advances were like really big and it was all these like moments, after that.
[00:56:55] But I don't think I ever, I don't think I've ever felt as rich again as I did with that hundred dollars in my pocket. Think that's the richest I've ever felt. Yeah. This day it was like you couldn't,
[00:57:07] John: Yeah. Like you're being paid.
[00:57:10] Chris: I had everything I needed in that moment.
[00:57:12] Lindsay: And what did the, why, what did that mean?
[00:57:13] Was it like the realization that? You are comp, like what you did, like what you were,
[00:57:20] Chris: I mean, kind of. Yeah. There was the thing that I got paid 100 American dollars tonight to just sing songs I wrote.
[00:57:29] Lindsay: I think also the thing that you're talking about that strikes me is like that gift of it all.
[00:57:34] Like when you're describing the way music hits you, I'm like, that's really rare, obviously to you. Yeah. And what a, it just makes you think too about just the talents or gifts or things that, that we have. Right. That sounds super cheesy, but seriously, it doesn't know. It doesn't wait. So, what was the experience like opening up for the Rolling Stones, or opening for them is the right phrase.
[00:57:57] Chris: It was really like, it was like a clinic. It was like graduate school, rock and roll graduate school. For me, it was like every night just watching them play. They were so. Concise. Everything that they did had a purpose.
[00:58:14] I mean, an aesthetic purpose. Not like they weren't building a table on stage, but they were like, every time somebody moved, someone else would fill in the space that they had moved out of. It was just beautiful to watch. They could do anything while they were playing with guitars and walking around, giving each other, like on the beat.
[00:58:32] Lindsay: Yeah.
[00:58:33] Chris: Everything was just so,
[00:58:35] Lindsay: Did it feel different from what you had sort of been exposed to or seen before?
[00:58:40] Chris: It was, like, one of those moments when you're like, you are 20, seven years old, and you're still trying to like, do what you're doing as best as you possibly can. And then you're like, how do I do that?
[00:58:54] How do I do that? And then you look up on stage at the Rolling Stones and you're like, that's how I do it. This is, they're doing it.their work is just so beautiful. I think anybody who has a profession sees somebody and they're like, their work was just. Gorgeous. And they were really loyal to us.
[00:59:13] They were, I was at Keith Richards' birthday, and Ron Wood was wearing a Gordon's fisherman, like a rubber hat, like a yellow hat. And he comes over to me, he is Chris, Mike, how are you going? And he grabs me, and I'm like, good man. And he is like, How's the tour? And I was like, you guys are great.
[00:59:34] It's been so cool watching you. He goes, Oh, you've seen the band? And I was like. Yeah, you guys are the role of this down. And like Keith Richards is standing behind him, and he pokes Keith. And Keith turns around, he's yeah. Chris has seen the band 10 times. Oh. I said, I've watched you like every show I've seen you guys like 10 times.
[00:59:52] and as in life, Ron's you've seen the band 10 times. Keith. Keith turns around, handChris has seen the band 10 times. He goes, You've seen the band 10 times. And then Ron's Chris, have you had a chat with Mick? And I was like, whoa. I met Mick, but I didn't have a chat with him per se.
[01:00:10] Oh, you must come have a chat with Mick. And he brings me out, he's got me like this in a headlock.
[01:00:13] Lindsay: And you're feeling what at that moment? What's going through?
[01:00:15] Chris: I'm like, Ron Wood is like shuffle over to Mick. And he goes, he goes, Mick, this is Chris from the spin doctors. And Mick goes, I know. And I was like, ping, once again, like Mick Jagger knows who I am, and then oh my God.
[01:00:30] And then Ron goes, Chris has seen the band 10 times. And Mick goes, You've seen the band 10 times. I'm like, dude, you're Mick Jagger. Yeah. But yeah, it was, it was a tremendous learning experience watching that. Wow. Just like watching the perfect, you think about cool, and you look at ,g and you're like, wow, they're cool.
[01:00:53] Those guys aren't cool. They're like, the word cool was invented to describe people like them. You know what I mean? Yeah. They're not just cool. They, you know what I mean? It's not like someone didn't invent a work. They actually embody cool. They're like, not just like, why they're not acting cool.
[01:01:15] They are the reason the concept of cool came into being.
[01:01:21] Lindsay: Yeah.
[01:01:21] John: You know what it is, though? It's because they're so authentic, and it's, it is, they are like fluid, like water. When you say someone fills a spot, they really do. It's not a preconceived show. It's just whatever happened naturally, and they just have a swagger.
[01:01:37] And it just all works together
[01:01:39] Lindsay: Well. And it's not that different from what people feel when they watch you guys, and for why they light up when they hear that music again. Like you did, you saw it was like, because you're just doing the authentic thing. It's Jalen Hurts, the Eagles quarterback.
[01:01:57] He often posts the same phrase. Keep the main thing. The main thing. Yes. Right. And that's like the branding thing that kind of gives me chills. 'cause it's and he's posting it after every win and they're on a roll. Right. Or, and it's that's the main thing. That's the branding, like Levi's when you're talking about the jeans or whatever it is.
[01:02:16] So yeah. To that point, where does this go?
[01:02:18] Chris: The greatest brands of all time are like the, just know what they are. They're just truly authentic.
[01:02:24] John: The thing,
[01:02:26] Chris: If you are focusing, if even with younger generations and the artists, I think you have a lot to teach people, but if they're focusing on the gloss and the success.
[01:02:38] Rather than the grit and the happiness. They're not going to get the success.
[01:02:44] Lindsay: Yeah. But that's so hard, especially now. Right.
[01:02:46] Chris: And you can't think about it,
[01:02:47] John: It just has to happen naturally.
[01:02:48] Chris: I think it is hard. I think it's hard because we live in this, like, detached kind of world where so many things are abstracted from, the main thing, cause we're like looking at our phone at a rhino instead of going on a safari and actually looking at a rhino.
[01:03:06] And I tell people all the time, they're like, How are you? Like, how are you? How do you play guitar the way you do? And I'm like, practice. And they're like, yeah, but you're so talented. And I'm like, but I mostly do it because I practice. If you practice as much as I do, you would be. As good or better than me at guitar.
[01:03:26] but you're so talented and I'm like, the people refuse to like, take in the main thingness of the main thing. And it really does. It's much simpler. What's complicated is sort of like waking up every day and being like psyched to put that work in. But you know, I had a conversation with this woman years ago, and she was part of an illegal syndicate that was writing papers for college students.
[01:04:00] And, these,
[01:04:01] These people were like, they were the smartest people I'd ever met. It's like the past version of AI. Yeah. And we're just getting hammered in a bar. And I was talking to this woman, and she was actually saying to me, I don't know whether I want to be a brain surgeon or a rocket scientist.
[01:04:19] She said, The problem in life is knowing what you want. And I said, No, the problem is wanting what you want. You know enough to do it enough to wake up every day and be like, I'm gonna put this time in. And it's very like nuts and bolts. It's all very nuts. And why do I have a bunch of energy?
[01:04:41] You guys saw me like on stage and you're like, he's got a lot of energy. 'cause I jump fucking rope, man. I just like jump rope a lot, it's so much fun every time. Yeah. It's not like a but it, but the difference between people who, most people who you know do something really well and people who do it not that well is the amount of like time and effort.
[01:05:04] You get what you give.
[01:05:06] John: It's a craft that you've taken the time to work on through the love of the project of music and what you feel is marketing naturally
[01:05:14] Chris: of the marketing of that. The great brands are just like the great brands are the thing that is authentic, where that's where the authenticity comes in.
[01:05:22] John: Well, great brands grow with people. They don't just shove it. If you shove it in front of someone, it's a short life.
[01:05:31] Lindsay: Right. Is it because that's the real thing?
[01:05:33] John: It's the real thing
[01:05:33] Lindsay: Like this is Yes. Yes.
[01:05:36] John: And it'll evolve. It'll evolve like a good friend or a band member with you as you evolve.
[01:05:40] And that's just, that's when you love your audience, when you love your consumers, and you take them on the journey with you instead of just taking your own journey. And so they can come along whether they love it, like it, or not. And there are brands that take that position.
[01:05:54] Lindsay: So this leads right into a couple of rapid firsts that I love to do.
[01:05:57] Okay. So we'll start with you, John, if you were going to create a title for Chris in future branding. What would that be?
[01:06:07] John: Elastic cake pop.
[01:06:12] And I expect to see you on stage with a shirt, with an elastic cake pop.
[01:06:16] Lindsay: Elastic cake pop. You know it's coming. I'm rendering that. It's your Christmas present. You
[01:06:19] Chris: Build it. They will come.
[01:06:22] Lindsay: Best, best part about being a rock and roll star.
[01:06:27] Chris: The music, the thing of pulling out a guitar, like opening up your mouth and filling a room with sound, and like pursuing the waking up in the middle of the nig,, and like going out and having my cat sit on me and pulling out a guitar and just playing.
[01:06:43] Like all alone. Nobody there. Everyone's asleep. What's there? Music like, feel, feeling a note. Fill up a room. The essence of the music itself and being that close. That is, it's magic. It is actual magic.
[01:07:05] John: I like how you say it fills the room when it's funny. The way I think about it is that you leave voice particles in the wood like they are there forever.
[01:07:12] Lindsay: That's deep. Incredible.
[01:07:14] Chris: No, I mean, that works when you try to actually paint the ceiling with your voice. That sounds,
[01:07:23] John: But the thing is, I think motivator. You do that because music is such an interesting art, because someone can look at a piece of art on a wall and have a reaction to it, but every time a song comes on, especially with whatever you were doing at that time, that music has a recall.
[01:07:45] Yeah. So you recall a smell. The people you were with. The date, the time, a sweater,
[01:07:51] Chris: A person,
[01:07:52] John:, Everything comes back. It's like an overwhelming set of emotions, and it happens every single time the music comes on.
[01:07:58] Chris: It really is magic. The, like, where is a song when you're not singing it or hearing it?
[01:08:08] What is a song? It's not a, like this is a plate, but what is a song? It's this idea, and you could do it, why is a song, why is it still the same song? If you do it in a different style, how is it, what are, what is it that hangs these, this group of ideas together that makes it a contiguous thing in the, that's my favorite part is I work in this like incredibly mysterious, there's a nuts and bolts thing of just sitting there and playing the same three notes over and over again until you can play this thing and working on the position of your hand or your body when you're singing, so that you do it in this like beautiful way.
[01:08:45] Then there's this other Part of music that makes no sense, and it isn't really like a real thing that you're working with in the sense that a table or other kinds of objects that somebody might work with are, and that's, to me, I get endless, like mystery and enjoyment. So it's like I'm still excited about doing it, I get up and you guys see me play it, and you have a response to it because I'm still endlessly mystified and excited and interested in what I do because I know I'll never get to the bottom of it.
[01:09:22] John: Wow. That's cool.
[01:09:25] Lindsay: That's very cool. Cheers.
[01:09:26] John: As in cool. Like the Rolling Stones.
[01:09:28] Lindsay: Cool. Cheers. Coffee drinkers.
[01:09:30] Thank you guys so much. I could have listened to Chris tell stories about his SNL experience, and just like the Rolling Stones and all the things, all day. But what, honestly, the part that blew me away, that I was like, I wanna hear more, when he described the way he hears music.
[01:09:49] Because it just made me think if someone, if that is what it likes to have the gift that he has been given. Wow. What is that like for other people? And it made me really think about people who have talents that are in the arts, or whatever your talent is. Do you just react differently to those things?
[01:10:09] I don't know. Another conversation, but also, of course, I have to end with something funny. When does a doctor get mad? When he runs outta patience. Thank y'all for having patience with me. I know this was a longer conversation, but I loved it. And I hope that you will go to the show notes to find out where Chris and the spin doctors will be, what you can find them working on.
[01:10:36] Chris talked about his new music, and I hope that you will check out all the things that we have to say with things no one tells you. So, as always, it's great having you here. Thanks, John. Thanks,Chrisi, for driving up in your Subaru and,
[01:10:50] Can't wait to see you guys next time. Thanks so much for joining me. I can't wait to see you back here next week. Please don't forget, follow, and subscribe to Things No One Tells You. And of course, if you're listening on Apple Podcasts, don't forget to leave a five-star review because that's really what helps people get more.
[01:11:05] Listeners, we would love to grow this community. We are so grateful that you're a part of it. See you next time.
