Faith in Football with the Buffalo Bills: Ep 16
Highlights from the episode:
The quiet but steady role of a team chaplain
How faith can hold a team together after tragedy
What brotherhood looks like beyond wins and losses
The ripple effect of belief in locker-room culture
Lessons from Sean Taylor’s legacy and Damar Hamlin’s recovery
Podcast show notes:
Some of the most powerful moments in sports happen away from the playing field. That’s what struck me in this conversation with Buffalo Bills team chaplain Len Vanden Bos and linebacker Lorenzo Alexander. I became really interested in learning more about the role faith plays in the NFL because I started to observe things on the sidelines, after games, and during the course of the weekly schedule covering NFL teams in Miami and Washington, D.C.
I noticed that some players were displaying their spirituality openly around the facilities and also after games meeting at midfield to kneel and pray with their competitors, I also was introduced to the concept of the team chaplain and saw that work in full force in 2007 when Washington safety Sean Taylor was killed and his teammates leaned on each other and Pastor Brett Fuller through grief and healing.
When Bills’ safety Damar Hamlin suffered a life threatening cardiac event on the field in January 2023, I was watching at home like millions of other football fans as the team and the nation seemed to be collectively praying for a miracle. During shots the cameras were getting on the sidelines, I caught a close up shot of the Bills’ team chaplain Len Vanden Bos praying alongside a player on the bench. That moment made me want to understand more about how faith and belief might play more of a role in the sport than we think, and that’s when I decided I wanted to reach out to Len in hopes he would share his story. Here we are a couple years later. I’m grateful Damar Hamlin is back playing, and I’m grateful the Buffalo Bills were open and helped share this story. I appreciate Lorenzo Alexander for being willing to sit with us and share a player's perspective as well as his personal story about the impact of the death of his friend, star safety Sean Taylor.
In this episode, Len and Lorenzo open up about what belief really looks like in the NFL, and why it matters.
We talked about how faith shapes the locker room, steadies players in moments of tragedy, and builds a kind of brotherhood that lasts long after the season ends. Len and Lorenzo shared about how the spiritual fabric of a team can be just as important as its playbook.
What You’ll Discover:
The role of faith inside an NFL locker room (04:44)
Len on why the Bills created a full-time chaplain role (07:30)
Lorenzo on what shifted after Sean Taylor’s death (16:56)
Why belief builds brotherhood beyond the scoreboard (36:30)
Faith as a foundation during tragedy and crisis (47:11)
As I listened to Len and Lorenzo share their experiences, I was reminded of how faith can give athletes a way to steady themselves when the stakes feel impossibly high. Tune in to hear how NFL players’ lives can be impacted because of the community and fellowship surrounding them.
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Full Transcript
[00:00:00] Len: I remember I went over to the ambulance door to try to, you know, pray over him somehow. And then by the time that pulled away, I looked back and Sean had gathered the whole team and was motioning me over to come and pray. And Lindsay, I can't, the only thing I could get outta my mouth was, Lord, bring him back.
[00:00:20] Lindsay: Hey everybody, welcome to Things No One Tells You. Or TNOTY, as we like to call it. That was Buffalo Bill's team chaplain, Len Vanden Boss. He was sharing the interaction and what it was like. Moments after Bill's head coach Sean McDermott two years ago, motioned for his help as a Buffalo Bills safety.
[00:00:38] Damar Hamlin was taken off the field by ambulance after suffering a cardiac event on the field while millions watched. During Monday night Football. He goes into detail about that night, also about his job, which not a lot of people might know exists in the NFL.
[00:00:54] Len: You know, I don't know if I've gotten any better advice in my 12 years now in the league than that, but I have to remind myself of that every da,y too.
[00:01:02] As you get comfortable with guys going, this is their turf, you know, this is the National Football League. It's the Buffalo Bills. It's not a church,
[00:01:11] Lorenzo: Right
[00:01:11] Len: I'm allowed to come in there and serve and minister to people, and to steward that well is something my wife and I don't take for granted.
[00:01:20] Lindsay: I have wanted to have a conversation about faith in football because of things that I've observed while covering the NFL. And they've been both things that I've seen in locker rooms and team facilities, but also things that I've seen carried out, while covering sidelines on the field. And one of those things is I started noticing that at the end of games, players from both teams will meet at midfield, and if they choose to join in on this, they will kneel, they will hold hands, they will pray.
[00:01:49] And it turns out it is called Meet Me at the 50. It really struck my attention because it was moments after they had been in, you know, the height of battle against another professional, top athletes at what they do. But what I came to learn is that around the league, players know that this happens. So if they choose to take part in it.
[00:02:08] In whatever city they're playing in, that is always a place for them. After the game is done, I started to think that maybe this is something that not a lot of people know about and know exists, and so I thought maybe this would be a really interesting conversation to share. So what I discovered through this conversation with Len Vanden boss and Lorenzo Alexander, who's the player that he really wanted to have join him, but also who is a player I covered for years, covering the NFL in Washington, is that it also sheds light on the dynamics of a locker room that you might not realize, because it's just something that's not talked about a lot.
[00:02:41] So I think if you are religious, if you're spiritual, but also if you're not, there is really interesting, valuable insight here. That is also eye-opening, including the fact that when unexpected drama, even tragedy, occurs, the chaplain can very much become the glue that helps keep a team together.
[00:03:02] Len: What a great day.
[00:03:03] Right. This is, I mean, it's so cool to practice with all these guys, the fans, right? The kids. It's such, yeah. They bring so much energy to us.
[00:03:16] Lindsay: Great crowd.
[00:03:17] Len: Oh yeah. They're
[00:03:18] Lindsay: Like fans lined up at seven.
[00:03:21] Len: Yeah, they're into it, right? Monday morning.
[00:03:23] Lindsay: Do the fans know who you are? No. Are you sure?
[00:03:27] Len: No. They're like, like they're right now, they're going like, what's, who's this guy?
[00:03:31] Like, who's this guy? Yeah. All right. I gotta go. All right. Yeah. Alright, let's go. Come on, we're up. We're up. We're up. We're up. We're up. We're up.
[00:03:38] Lindsay: Most NFL teams have a team chaplain who is available to players and to staff during the week, but the Buffalo Bills are one of a handful who have a full-time chaplain.
[00:03:48] That idea is one that Sean McDermott brought with him when he took over as the head coach. Having someone always accessible to players builds trust, but also becomes a part of their daily routine on the practice field. So this has been a conversation that I think for me has been a couple of years in the making, and so I'm so grateful to have you guys here.
[00:04:09] Len Vanden boss, Lorenzo Alexander, Len, I feel I've known you now for a couple of years,
[00:04:14] Lorenzo: Right?
[00:04:14] Lindsay: And Lorenzo. I've known you now for, man, almost like 20 years.
[00:04:18] Lorenzo: Yeah. I mean, I got to you in Washington in 2006 when I got there. When did you get there? Yep. Yeah,
[00:04:23] Lindsay: I was there. So we overlapped for five years in Washington.
[00:04:25] Lorenzo: Yep. So five. Yep. I played 15, I've been out six, so 20, 21 years. Yeah. Yep. Yeah,
[00:04:30] Lindsay: Linebacker for the now commanders during that time. So I think I wanna start with both of you. There's so much to cover, but just what is something no one tells you about faith in football? How would you answer that?
[00:04:44] Lorenzo: Wow. I would say it is, it's more prevalent today. I think it's more visual, but I think it's always been at the core of guys in that locker room in some way. I think just for many years, just because of the old school way, it was more transactional, just thinking about your grandfather and how he grew up.
[00:05:01] And I think that culture was brought by, brought in by coaches, and so it was all about coming to work, doing your job, and leaving. And that was it. It really wasn't a place where you could feel like you could share your faith and share who you were openly. When I first got in the league, now it's since then changed, I don't know, 2010, 11, I started feeling this shift.
[00:05:24] guys stepping out, guys creating that huddle at the 50-yard line that you see. And I think over time, now we have full-time chaplains that are part of the fabric of the team. And so that's really where I've seen the biggest shift, to where now it's not like this outside thing that we know is a part of you, and we know it's important, but hey, we're gonna help actually bring someone in to help you cultivate that.
[00:05:44] Because we understand that if we have more grounded men who are disciplined and find their identity and who Christ is, they'll actually be able to handle a lot more challenges better because they're moving with God, and the way he sees things, right? And so we're moving outta love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, faithfulness, those, that's how you approach life and all that you do.
[00:06:05] And so when you show up to work, I'm more present. I'm more in tune, and guess what? I'm bringing those same principles to impact my teammates. Right. And so I may have a guy that's struggling, I can help that guy get on board, figure it out, or support him by building a relationship, letting him see Christ through me, and then he may elevate as well.
[00:06:23] So I think coaches are seeing the benefit from it from, performance standpoint in some ways. But also how it's impacting people's lives. Yeah.
[00:06:32] Len: You know, one thing I would add to that, which is a great answer, is what I think people don't know is that there are a lot of people, a lot of players in the league that love the Lord.
[00:06:41] You know, and they are doing amazing work. And they're not always the Reggie Whites of the Darrell Greens of the world. They're guys who are fighting for jobs and in all different positions, but they're great dads. They're great husbands, and they're doing great work on their teams. And oftentimes, nobody knows about that.
[00:07:01] But when we see each other in the fifties, some of these guys know each other. I love to watch before and after games. Everybody knows each other, it seems like. Right? But then, when more and more people gather and take a knee, you know, and thank God publicly, you see how the fabric of the league, I think, has changed because people are freer, or more bold to say, here's how I'm living my life.
[00:07:23] And, doing that honestly in front of young players, especially, I think, has sent a ripple right through the league.
[00:07:30] Lindsay: Yeah, for sure. So, Len. Walk me through how you would describe what the actual job of a full-time chaplain is. Yeah, and also Sean McDermott, head coach of the Bills. He told me when he took this coaching job, when he had the opportunity, he saidwouldn't't I want to hire a full-time Len?
[00:07:49] Full-time chaplain? Yeah. Like you on his staff. 'Cause he was like, I needed it, you know? Yeah. But I think that's really. Like you said, there's only a handful.
[00:07:56] Len: Yeah. Right, right. You know, my job, I think, is always to look at it three ways. Number one is to love everybody and to serve everybody, you know, when Jesus says love one another, as I've loved you, I wanna make sure that, whether they walk into the chapel or Bible study or have any kind of interaction with me, I want them to know that they're loved and I'm here to serve 'em.
[00:08:17] You know? Number two, I wanna share the good news with people. People who are open and interestedd who walk into Bible study or chapel. I wanna make sure they hear the good news of Jesus Christ. I wanna make sure that they don't leave, whether they're with the bills for a season or many seasons, that they hear the gospel.
[00:08:34] And then for guys like Lorenzo who are serious about their faith and growing is to try to make disciples and to come alongside. And I've learned as much from Lorenzo as he learned from me. I can guarantee you that. So I look at it that way, like if I, as I go into my job, you know, am I loving people?
[00:08:51] Am I sharing the good news with interested people? And am I making disciples of people that say, I, I'm serious. I want to grow deeper. That's how I look at kind of macro. I do a lot of things. There's a lot of programming stuff that we can get into that, you know, we can talk about that, that goes on between chapels and Bible studies.
[00:09:09] My wife and I are partners doing the ministry, so we do couples group together, and we bring
[00:09:14] Lindsay: Couples with players in their, yeah.
[00:09:16] Len: For sure. We, you know, Lorenzo and Manique hosted for many years when we were there. You know, open up their home. So, but trying to,
[00:09:25] Lindsay: And what is that like? Yeah. Can you take me inside?
[00:09:28] 'That like?
[00:09:29] Lorenzo: I mean, it's a great experience. I mean, I think on every team I've been on, I mean, even going back to Washington, we had guys that would do that. You know, London, Fletcher Anon, Randall Dele, right when I got here, Kyle Williams. And so when it was our opportunity to be, again, the veterans, the older couple, the mentors in a lot of different ways, we wanted to open our home and welcome people in, especially from the wise perspective, having played on five teams and making those transitions right.
[00:09:53] It's easy for me, right? It's easy. I mean, I got a whole bunch of guys that I get to see every day and build these organic relationships through doing something that's hard. Right. That's typically, you know, how football teams are created. You're doing things hard together. We bind around it, but our wives, yeah, a lot of times are, you gotta stay back with the kids, and then when you do come out, you kind of just drop in, in the middle of the year, and then so what does that look like?
[00:10:16] And then they're dealing with kids all day. I come home, I'm tired, and they don't have any real relationship outside of kids and a tired husband. And so being able to open our homes. Really getting to the work with our husbands and have the wives meet and uild a relationship with, I know Ms. Shar does too, with just the wives.
[00:10:34] So you can start cultivating community together as husbands, as spouses, and then as wives get to be able to see that and get to see that. So it was really cool for us to open it up and, you know, host and provide that space. And you really saw couples grow. You get to see a look ahead, okay, this is how we do things, pay things forward, and just people just, really giving their, their, testimony.
[00:10:58] And I think not really, no, depending on how old you are, but just really, I think, cutting on one another, how you, how do you do life together ascouples and the hard things that you have to go through and really helping in that way as well.
[00:11:09] Len: And, I would say too, you know, what Zoe provided Zoe and Man Janique provided was just a really safe place that we would.
[00:11:15] Come to, I think we did it on Thursday nights. I think maybe when you were on the team, but where guys could just show up and just like, whew, no football talk. Right. You know, and they're there with their Yeah. Significant other. And also, though, to have those kids there, I mean, the example we talked about earlier, the power of peer-to-peer ministry.
[00:11:34] Oh, for sure. For them to come into their home in that house and go, Oh, this is what a Christian House looks like. Like the kids are running around, and Zoe's helping with dinner and getting stuff ready. And a lot of times, I don't think a fair amount of players have seen that.
[00:11:49] Lorenzo: Yeah. No, it's true.
[00:11:50] Right? I didn't see it growing up, and I had to see Antron Reell and Len Fetcher, James Thrash, those men Reo Wynn modeled that Ye,s. Right. What does that look like? 'Cause you don't, right. And we actually would invite single guys, too. Yeah. And have them come over. Right. You know, invite, come on.
[00:12:05] So you see what it looks like to be married and have kids, so you can start forming what that looks like in your mind and what you want for your life. Right.
[00:12:11] Len: Probably more powerful than anything we said. Right, right. Just to walk into that environment,
[00:12:15] Lindsay: having an example,
[00:12:16] Len: having that example. So day to day, just to kind of, you know, wwe doaa chapel, like most teams do a chapel, either the night before the game.
[00:12:24] Some teams still do it the morning of the game, but we always did it the night before the game. So that's open to players and coaches. But we'll have some staff come in sometimes, or people from the training room will come. So that's a, that's kinda the, well,
[00:12:34] Lindsay: Sean said you can't find a seat in the house.
[00:12:36] It'swhat what he did. Yeah, ShSheas like you should see it.
[00:12:38] Len: Yeah. We're by God's grace. W, got a great place to meet. You know, and Sean has carved it right into the schedule, which has been a real blessing. So it's, it flows right into meeting time. Right. You know, which I think is strategic, very intentional.
[00:12:52] but that's really,where I lay out a theme, and we often just walk through books of the Bible together. And that's a little more presentation. It's a church service, if you will. We'll have some guests come in, some musical guests from time to time. And so we want them to feel very comfortable that they can come and sit.
[00:13:09] No one's gonna ask 'em any questions. They can just take it in, so that's the big thing we do as far as a service. And then for us, the Monday before the team meeting is Bible study. And as I was telling you earlier, we try to always combine those two things. So Chapel was kind of a presentation.
[00:13:26] Here's the text that we're going through. And then Monday was, let's talk about it a little bit deeper. How do we apply this? It's a more interactive bible study. So that's kind of our parallel. Stuff that we're going through from context. But then, on Tuesday, we do Tuesday night now, couples group.
[00:13:44] So Dawson and Alex Knox hosted last year. I think they're gonna host again this year. So Tuesday night we're doing a whole thing about marriage and what it means to date and what does Bible says about, you know, our relationships with each other. And, we love that we can't get enough of that, you know, and we have food there and, you know, it's just an evening where they can come get something to eat, and then hang out and talk as long as they want to.
[00:14:10] Then my wife does a Wednesday morning bible study fellowship for the ladies. So that's the unique thing about Buffalo, and we learned this from you guys and from the Williams, is that a lot of teams will have a coach's women, like a coach's wives' bible study, and then a player's wives, like, let's not have those two because you know.
[00:14:31] Right,
[00:14:33] Lindsay: right,
[00:14:33] Len: Right. You know, like, what my baby, you know, this guy? So, when we came to Buffalo, the Williams, I remember Jill Williams and Kyle said, Hey, this is what we do in Buffalo. We do it all combined. We're one big family, and we're not gonna talk about football. And so they were like, all right,
[00:14:48] Lindsay: Wow,
[00:14:48] Len: We're following your lead.
[00:14:49] And so my wife now facilitates that with Jamie McDermott and Hailey Bean, our general manager's wife, who is there. And so, but that community, you know, goes throughout the whole season on Wednesday. So we're, you know, we're busy. We got a lot of little programming things going on that we want to give 'em as many opportunities to come in, whether it's kind of in a service setting or just a fellowship time, either at the facility, at somebody's house, for them to get to know each other, you know, and then open up.
[00:15:18] And it's all about trust and building relationships so you can earn the right to say, Hey, let's talk about your story, and here's what I'm learning. But that takes time. You gotta earn that right to do that.
[00:15:31] Lorenzo: Yeah. And I would say what, I think Lynn has done really well is empower and encourage players.
[00:15:36] Right? Obviously led by the Holy Spirit. So what do you think about Reid Ferguson, Lee, Levi Wallace, Matt, Barkley, and there's probably a ton of other guys that I'm not, that's not coming to my mind 'cause I'm old. But, Lorenzo Alexander. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So to be able to really be extensions into the locker room, right.
[00:15:54] Because that's where, likeyou have the real conversations. There you go. And so even like today, we were having a Bible study, and you know, when these conversations are happening, you know, h, am I responding? And it was really cool to see those guys use their relationships, stand firm in who they were, and like speak truth and just, and I'm not saying like beating somebody over the head with the Bible, but just asking like, if I had my boy and he says something.
[00:16:20] Oh, ,really? So how does that end? You ask questions and are curious about that perspective, and I'm gonna share my faith. And then you start getting guys thinking a little bit differently, and guys are watching. That's one thing I figured out a long time ago, really, they're Tri Locker, they're watching, a nd they know who Christians are.
[00:16:38] Whs says that I stand for the Lord. I love the Lord. So they say, Well, how are you talking? What are you talking about? What are you watching? What are you listening to? You know, people are always watching. So it's a great opportunity to have all eyes on you and allow God to work through you because they're looking for him.
[00:16:56] They actually are trying to figure out what that thing is that makes you a little bit different. And I say that because I was that guy looking. There you go. Anell, James STRs REO went, I got saved in Washington, where Sean Taylor passed in 2007. But those men were walking differently even before that tragedy happened, and I was already curious.
[00:17:14] And then we had a great team chaplain, pastor Bret, who talked through the Purple Book and helped me really understand who I am in Christ and what Christ did on the cross for me. aAndso. Making sure guys understood that. And I think Lynn did a really good job and helped us feel comfortable in equipping them to feel comfortable through using the word to be able to ask those questions or put plant little seed, and guys get to thinking, and then they end up, oh, are you in Bible study day, man?
[00:17:41] That's cool. Right? And so you start seeing it happening and over organically over the last, you've been here seven,
[00:17:48] Len: nine,
[00:17:48] Lorenzo: Nine years, right? Yeah. It goes by fast. You see the ministry grow, right? And it's just God working guys in the locker room and just the Holy Spirit kind of moving through that space.
[00:17:59] which is really cool. And it's uncomfortable because I've also had guys at times say, It feels like it's a cult. I'm like, no, it's not that. But that's the spirit. And that makes people uncomfortable. And I think, as I have to be, I'm going to be firm. I can't really worry about how that may make you feel in that way.
[00:18:16] 'cause I wanna share my faith not overly or crazy. Yeah. But outta love. But you have, I have heard that in some ways, too. And that just tells me that the spirit is moving and putting those people in a certain way because it's hard to be in a space when people are loving on one another like that.
[00:18:33] and so I think he's done a really good job, and they, and that when he said, they gave me an opportunity to start asking, well, why do you feel that way? Or what's going on? And
[00:18:41] Lindsay: Yeah.
[00:18:42] Lorenzo: Able to get to the root of what's really going on in that situation and just kind of feel outta place
[00:18:46] Lindsay: for context. When you're saying that, you're, that guys are talking, and then you're in a moment where you wanna question that, like you're saying..
[00:18:52] Lorenzo: Yeah.
[00:18:53] Lindsay: For context, for people that aren't aware, like what type of chatter would that be in a locker room? How would you describe it
[00:18:59] Lorenzo: In terms of
[00:19:01] Lindsay: Just what you're hearing that you feel like you need to, Oh,
[00:19:04] Lorenzo: God. I mean, there we have men, right? We have a whole bunch of 22 to, well, I was old, I'll put my in there.
[00:19:11] 37 or Aaron Rodgers 42, 2, right, right, right. Men. And so just think about all the things that we would consider seeing are things that men get themselves into. And I call it because we have boyish where we call ourselves men, but we have. Boy tendencies, right? Because the Bible tells you to lay down those things as you mature and grow up and understand what the truth is.
[00:19:32] And we have men that haven't quite done that. And I still have my things that I'm working on, whether it's your tongue or whether it's your eyes or your ears that you're listening to. So, you know, you got pornography, you got relationships with women. Yeah. You have, how do you parent, how are you gonna invest your money?
[00:19:48] Yep. It's there's a ton of conversations that you're gonna have, you know, with your, that you have with your kids at home, that you have with your own friends, that people have that those are the conversations I'm having with guys in the locker room. Right. And I wanna bring a kingdom's perspective to whatever worldly idea that they have, right?
[00:20:05] I think people are also oftentimes trying to find these things, and it's right there in the word, as far as how do you navigate some of these really hard things, and you may feel like you are losing yourself. In that. But anytime that you are allowing the spirit to work through you, you just, because you actually grow and expand.
[00:20:24] I mean, the world has us so messed up, you know, they think you're shrinking. When you surrender. You actually, God expands your impact and influence when you submit, obey, and really abide by thee word. And so,
[00:20:36] LenAndnd, they see if I can interrupt.
[00:20:38] Lorenzo: Yeah,
[00:20:38] Len: And they see, like, I, I think we were talking earlier, right?
[00:20:41] The power of the peer-to-peer ministry, right? I mean, I, believe the, like I said, the chaplains facilitate, but when you have guys like this or, the other guys that you mentioned as well as Case Keenum and Josh McCowen, or guys like Matt Forte or Brendan Marshall, her cousins, I mean, there's so, de Mario Davis, there's so many around the league.
[00:21:02] Some guys know some other guys that you, they're not household names, but when they can go into the locker room, you know, and have significant real conversations with. Appears that you are going through exactly the same thing you are, right? Dealing with women, dealing with money, dealing with publicity and fame, right?
[00:21:20] And all the trappings that come with it. When you can begin to speak truth in that, to be a listener, a good listener, and then go, Hey, have you ever thought about it this way?
[00:21:28] Lorenzo: Right?
[00:21:29] Len: I remember coming home some late night Sunday night, you know, middle of nowhere, dark. And I look over in the plane to Zoe and, you know, everybody's asleep or, you know, got ice bags on all this stuff.
[00:21:42] Zoe's over here working on his discipleship booklet that we're going through. You see, you know, I mean, he just played, you know, 80 snaps and just Right. And he's over there. 'Cause we had, we used to, we went through a discipleship, right, you know, handbook. And we would meet on Mondays or Tuesdays. So he was like doing his homework, right?
[00:22:00] And Guy, you know, guys would see that. Yeah. The guys will see that. Yeah. You know, and that witness is more powerful. At least that's where it should always start. Oh, for sure. For sure.
[00:22:10] Lindsay: I think it's really interesting and really cool the way that. With your role, Len, is that McDermott besides just doing the typical things you would do as a full-time chaplain?
[00:22:22] It's almoso me like he's created just this, you're a safe space that's always present. Like, I think the way that you explain the role to me is really interesting because you're also out there coaching, right?
[00:22:34] Len: Well, I
[00:22:35] Stay in my lane.
[00:22:36] Well, be very clear. Very clear, right? I stay in my lane,
[00:22:41] Lindsay: But I think I, because when you were talking about this, you're out there coaching, you're working with the DBs, right?
[00:22:46] You're doing, you know, I'm throwing them the ball. Throwing the ball. Right, right. Yeah. Okay. But also cones. Yeah, but you're around in different areas where they see you and you're this welcome face, and they know that they can talk to you. It's, it makes a ton of sense to me about how that also breeds chemistry.
[00:23:05] Len: No doubt, but that was Sean's from the very beginning. Sean intuitively knew that when he first hired me, he said, I want, I don't want you just, you know, coming in this, I want you to be fully integrated into the team between meeting rooms, practice. Travel office, the whole thing. And that just set me up for success.
[00:23:25] Yeah. You know, for sure.
[00:23:26] Lindsay: And your journey to this role. Can you share? Yeah. What was that? Yeah.
[00:23:31] Len: So I was a college football coach for about eight or nine years in the mid-eighties to early nineties. And, I grew up in a Christian home, but be honest with you, by the time I was around 28 years old, my football had kind of become my God, and my priority in my relationship with God had kind of grown cold.
[00:23:53] If you will. And through the work of my brother, who led me to Christ when I was 14 years old, who continued to mentor me and check on me, you know, he started to write me notes and, say, Hey, you know, how are you living? You know, I know you're having great success and you're climbing the ladder, but you know, what's your relationship with God like?
[00:24:15] And that led to an opportunity to join a church in Chicago on staff. And, I was working for Jack Harbaugh at the time, at Western Kentucky. And who was a, you know, John, and I were GAs together at Western Michigan, and I was coaching for his dad. And Jack is like the guy I modeled everything I did coaching afterwards.
[00:24:36] He was just my, uy. And God got hold of us when my wife and I went and visited this church in Chicago. And we just felt God saying, "You gotta take this job. This is your next step. And what it was, Lindsay, it was the first step of faith that cost me something. I grew up in a Christian home, went to Christian school, you know, I kind of lived a safe kind of Christian life.
[00:24:59] And now I'm an adult chasing my dream of being a college and maybe even a pro coach someday. And all of a sudden God gets a hold of you, and this is where you need to go. And that step of faith was, tas one of the hardest things I've ever had to do, was walk in Jack Harbaugh's office in the spring of 1992 and say I'm gonna, I'm gonna leave your staff and I'm gonna go work at this church.
[00:25:21] You know? And I wish I could say it was fantastic from day one, but it was really hard,
[00:25:28] Lorenzo: Right?
[00:25:28] Len: It was really hard. It was like, what are we doing? We had two young kids, you know, and yet God gave me the opportunity a few years later to coach at Wheaton College part-time, which allowed me to kinda stay in football.
[00:25:41] But, in Psalm 37, it says, if you delight yourself in the Lord, he'll give you the desires of your heart. You know, if you put me first. I'm gonna take care of everything else. And, didn't want to get outta coaching 'cause I didn't like coaching. I love coaching. There's nothing I didn't wanna get out of it.
[00:25:58] But the call on my life to join the staff of that church and do sports ministry was just, I couldn't deny it.
[00:26:07] Lindsay: So that was the, it, that was it. It was just, it was such a strong feeling for you.
[00:26:10] Len: It was such a call. It was a call that I just can't explain unless you know what the work of the Holy Spirit does.
[00:26:15] It was like, we have to do this. And I remember my wife going, You really like we're gonna leave coaching? Like, she knows me better than anybody, nd she's, yo, we're gonna do this? And I said, yeah. We prayed about it, and we felt like this was what God was leading us to do. And, we were there for 25 years, you know, our family was there, coached at Wheaton College for 17 years, part-time, just in the fall, helping out.
[00:26:40] Lorenzo: Right.
[00:26:40] Len: Getting to be able to do my football stuff, but still be a dad, you know. And then, towards the end of that run, I got introduced to Mark Trussman, with the Bears. He became the Bears Coach in 13. Yeah. And, he brought me over to House Hall, and I sat down; he sat in the back, and Brandon Marshall, Matt Forte, and Josh Count interviewed me.
[00:27:02] Lorenzo: Oh, okay.
[00:27:03] Len: You know? Yeah. And he sat in the back and took notes, you know. And so, wow. The next two seasons, I was working at the church full-time, but I'd come over to Halas Hall as much as I could, started traveling with a team, and they gave me an office. I was just like, This is the greatest thing. But in reality, I don't think that at that time there was a full-time chaplain in the NFL.
[00:27:21] There was, so the idea of me. Doing that full-time was not realistic. So I didn't, you know, it wasn't something I thought I could do. Right. You know, until a couple of hours later, when Leslie, I knew Leslie Frazier, when he joined the staff of Sean McDermott, Leslie called me up and said, Hey, Sean McDermott wants to create a position for a full-time chaplain.
[00:27:42] And he asked me for a recommendation. I recommended you. And Nice. That's how you know, wow. It was just, it was a good moment. You know? Our kids had just left the house, so we were empty nesters at the timing was so good. And so for the last nine years, my wife and I moved to Buffalo and just have been serving, and it's just been a dream job, you know, to work with guys like this and to introduce people to the gospel and to how to read scripture and that God has a design for your life, you know, and do it.
[00:28:12] Football, it's been, you know, incredible. What a gift. Delight yourself in the Lord. No, that's great. You know, he's gonna take care of you. Yeah, for sure. It didn't happen as quickly at times. I'm like, what am I doing? So long-winded story, to answer your question.
[00:28:24] Lindsay: I love that.
[00:28:25] Len: That's how we landed in Buffalo.
[00:28:27] Lindsay: What advice did other people give to you that you reached out to?
[00:28:31] Len: Yeah. Yeah. So when I got the job, Troy Murphy, who was the chaplain for the Packers for several years, and he's a pastor up in Green Bay, we were on the same staff at Willow Creek together. And so he was the only guy I knew in the league who had done any kind of chaplain work.
[00:28:45] So I called him up, and I distinctly remember him saying, Len, be the one guy in the building that doesn't ask for anything, be the guy in the building that just serves him and loves him, and doesn't want anything, has no agenda other than to serve him and love him. He says, if you can do that, you will set yourself apart.
[00:29:06] From everybody else in these guys' worlds. 'cause everybody from their agent to their family, to their position coach wants something true.
[00:29:13] Lorenzo: Right?
[00:29:14] Len: Right. And like, be that, be different. And that will allow you to build trust, you know? So that was great advice. You know, I don't know if I've gotten any better advice in my 12 years now in the league than that, but I have to remind myself of that every day, too.
[00:29:29] As you get comfortable with guys going, this is their turf, you know, this is the National Football League. It's the Buffalo Bills. It's not a church,
[00:29:37] Lorenzo: Right
[00:29:38] Len: I'm allowed to come in there and serve and minister to peopleAndnd to steward that well is something my wife and I don't take for granted.
[00:29:47] But that was great advice I got from the get-go. And I remember talking to Brett Fuller as well. I think Troy. Gave me Brett's number, a nd I called himand Brett was so gracious with his time and just encouraged me, just like, You can do it. You know, get in there and here are some things I do, but just be yourself and go love on the guys, serve 'em, share the gospel with 'em, and you'll do great.
[00:30:06] Lindsay: Yeah.
[00:30:07] Len: So those are a couple of guys who, early on, helped me get off on the right track.
[00:30:11] Lindsay: What about for people that they're believers and they're non-believers on teams, so how do you approach that and what does that look like?
[00:30:18] Lorenzo: Yeah. You wanna answer that question? You want me to answer that question? I, yeah.
[00:30:21] I don't know how you approach it. I mean, I love everybody the same. Yeah, Right. I'm trying to serve, that's what it comes down to. Serve, to leadership. And so whether you are a believer or not. I mean, obviously, I want you to be a believer. I want you to surrender your life to Christ, but if you're not, it doesn't mean I'm gonna treat you any differently.
[00:30:37] And so we had a ton of guys that would kind of, I'm not doing the Jesus thing. All right, well, you can, youcan I take you to lunch and do the Z thing and just kind of hang out and get to know me? You know? Okay, cool. Right. They want that aspect, that type of relationship. And then I think most people just want to see if it's authentic?
[00:30:54] Yeah. Right. Want to get to know who you are and see, and again, they're watching and so I understand thattt and I'm not, I wanna make sure that I, I'm in the worldd. I'm living in a way that is going to be a good reflection of the father. Right? Because that's what we represent when we stand up. And so when I have guys like that, who are nonbelievers, I'm just, I don't really even ask guys, are you a believer?
[00:31:16] It tends to come out, but I'm more getting to trying to get to know them, where they're at in life, wherethey'rey doing, how did you grow up? Yeah. You know, are you married? Weoourkids? What's your father's son? One of the things I really liked was what Sean did, which I started just trying to find the common ground, right?
[00:31:30] He allowed people to get up and share their story. Yep. And so you'd be like, oh, he's not a believer. But my uncle was a diabetic as well and went through renal failure, so Oh, I can, we can connect on that piece. Yeah. Right. And so let's start there. We have a lot in common, and so it was always trying to meet guys where they're at and invite them in, make them feel like family.
[00:31:48] I didn't want anything from them. I'm just here to serve you and help you become the best version of yourself through Christ, even though you don't know that's what you want. And I'm still trying to do that, give them wisdom in that way, and, you know, just plant the seed. That's my job is to plant the seed.
[00:32:04] God is gonna water it and grow it, and fix it up and make it grow within My job is just to. Present it to him and live it out. Try to do it, live it out in front of him.
[00:32:14] Len: I mean, I think the word you used, which I would double down on, is being authentic.
[00:32:17] Lorenzo: Yeah.
[00:32:18] Len: Right. The guy who's seeking, or interested, I would call him an explorer, he is trying to figure out faith and what it means, and how might he fit in, and what's the bible say, that kind of thing.
[00:32:31] one thing they don't wanna feel like is a target,
[00:32:33] Lorenzo: Right
[00:32:34] Len: Right. Like, okay, I'm going after you. I got this agenda. Right? Yeah. Kind of thing with you. Right. As opposed to, I'd like to know your story, right? Just what you said. Right. I wanna know your story. What, where, are you at? What, what do you get here?
[00:32:46] How did you know what you love to do? What are your passions outside of football? And to actually do that and be a really good listener.
[00:32:54] Lorenzo: Right.
[00:32:54] Len: Right. And to be as opposed to we all of us have a tendency wanna say stuff, you know, and we're thinking about stuff while someone's talking. But to really be a good listener, and then to be a student and to go, I notice this about you.
[00:33:08] You know, and to encourage them. Things that you notice about them. Right, right. And over time. Right. You can't shortcut that right. Over time. And you keep showing up, and you keep showing up, and then, they watch you. Most importantly, then inevitably something will happen. Doesn't have to be dramatic, you know?
[00:33:28] but if something is going on, they get hurt. Right? Right. And all of a sudden, you know, they're at, they're in the training room, and you go, Hey, hoare w are you feeling? You know what's going on? And now you have a little background to begin with, all of a sudden they let their guard down and go, man, I'm really struggling.
[00:33:45] You know, but that takes time. That takes, right. There's no shortcut to that. You just have to build relationships, the trust factor,, and knowing that, hey, you're not a target. Whether you know, this is my hope for you, and I'm gonna explain it the best I can, and I'm gonna pray about it for you, but I'm not gonna pressure you.
[00:34:03] Lindsay: Right.
[00:34:03] Len: But I'm gonna invite you, right? Sure.
[00:34:05] I'm gonna invite
[00:34:05] You and you're always welcome. You know,
[00:34:07] Lindsay: and it's sort of like whether they accept or not, it's. It's also, it's helping those things. It's camaraderie, it's chemistry for sure. You've been on several teams. Made an impact on several teams.
[00:34:19] Have you, do you, bel, are you believein the fact that the teams, you've been a part of, the chemistry, are the most gelled teams in terms of just getting along? Is it I? Does that make sense what I'm asking? Like, has it been more of a chemistry thing?
[00:34:37] Lorenzo: So, yeah. I, but not from success, so I wouldn't say it's going to lead to winning more.
[00:34:42] Winning. I don't wanna say that at all because I've been on some teams that were really connected, strong faith, right? Even this organization, the ultimate goal is to win a Super Bowl, right? And this is probably one of the most connected communities when you think about Team Onebuilds, you know, one love all of that, that I've ever been a part of, and haven't been able to win a Super Bowl.
[00:35:04] So I don't want it, I don't want it to get devalued by saying that. It is only valuable if we win. Right? Because I think that's often the oftentimes, especially in professional sports or in life, well, did you win? Well, that's, another, that's something totally different. 'cause I'm thinking about impacting life and changing people's lives.
[00:35:24] And oftentimes, like, I'm, I referenced the book, Joe Iman, who wrote a book, ok Inside Out Coaching. And so a lot of the principles that Lynn is talking about, I actually implement with my young kids, right? Obviously, it's youth sports, but youth sports are crazy. You might think it's professional sports, right?
[00:35:40] And oftentimes you cannot, the way I evaluate if I did a good job as a coach, I, I really can't do that until they're like 18, 20, right? Going to high school. You know, what do they perceive life differently than other high schools? I can't go off. Did, NFL run team coached by Lorenzo Alexander, did we go 18 to oh and win the championship?
[00:36:05] That's not what I'm seeking. And I don't think that's what Lynn or anybody that's in there is seeking either. Right. That's typically a byproduct. And maybe you get, you know, that's what God has in store for you. But I'm looking for, man, this dude got married, he's at home with his kids.
[00:36:19] He gets to experience that. Now his kids get to see what his mom and dad look like. He's breaking a curse that maybe he didn't get to experience. Those are like the real wins. That's what I'm looking for.
[00:36:30] Len: Generational change.
[00:36:31] Lorenzo: Generational changes that the winning, yes, I wanna win a Super Bowl. Right? I wanted to win a Super Bowl.
[00:36:36] That didn't happen. But being able to hear guys like, Hey Zoe, you changed my life. I get emotional thinking about it because other guys did that for me.
[00:36:44] Lindsay: No doubt.
[00:36:45] Lorenzo: It's like the ultimate win. No doubt. You know what I mean? So that's how I guess, That's how I, I guess, categorize if, are we doing, what we're supposed to do when I get calls like that from guys or when I see 'em?
[00:37:00] That's how I know, okay, we're doing our right thing regardless if we win a Super Bowl or win a championship.
[00:37:05] Lindsay: Yeah. What does it make you think about, like what kinds of moments that you've had with
[00:37:10] Lorenzo: players? Well, one of the things I always go back to Asan Taylor, is seeing him; he was actually going through that transition when he was murdered.
[00:37:19] Right? I was just in a car accident, a significant one where I could have died. So it just shows you that, right? You're not promised tomorrow. And so when you see guys get it and they surrender and they start really diving in, and you start seeing those changes in their lives, you get to make an impact before God says, I'm calling you home.
[00:37:37] And right. And so when you have that happen, it's just a lot of people on this team, I mean, the Raiders, we didn't win that much, but I mean, we had Derrick Carr, we had Marcel, we had a lot of great dudes on that team. Like I mentioned,,d the commanders or the Redskins at the time. A ton of great dudes.
[00:37:54] I don't, I mean, three and 13 seasons, I think we went to the playoffs twice, you know, but just the men, I'm still doing life with those guys now and watching them how they, you know, father and parent and impacted communities and what that has done for just my family. 'cause you know, I grew up, my mom and dad weren't married, but I got to see what that looked like when I went into those men's homes.
[00:38:15] They impacted my life. And now I get to pay that forward to other guys who may hahad ve had that same childhood experience I did. And so that's what it's about. Yeah. And so you're just changing, just the trajectories of families and what it looks like, in their household as far as being able to grow up with mom and dad and see them loving on the Lord and what that's gonna mean for their kids.
[00:38:37] and obviously the people that they come in contact with.
[00:38:39] Lindsay: I have always loved just understanding the stories behind, you know, different players, understanding how players and coaches grow through the sport and through their experience. I don't know that I've thought about it that way. You have this massive locker room of all these different people that are in there together that have very different experiences.
[00:38:57] Yeah. And so different across the entire spectrum, a nd the value of that's really powerful.
[00:39:04] Len: Just to see you get emotional about that shows the depth of the connection you've had with guys. Correct? Yeah. And these, and as you know, what they do physically. Over a long period of time together.
[00:39:17] I mean, they are so connected on the field, and they have to be; they have to work together. Right. And then to translate that and go, we can do life together. Yeah. It doesn't have to be just connected. I fit here, you fit here in the run. Right. It's like, you know, we can actually do life together and have those relationships continue on for decades.
[00:39:39] Right. Right. IItgives you purpose. That's why it makes you emotional. Right. God is doing all the work, but he invites us into this amazing melting pot of football.
[00:39:51] Lorenzo: Yeah.
[00:39:51] Len: Wives and girlfriends included in the community, right? Like we're, this team and community together for these six, seven months together.
[00:40:00] Right. And the opportunity there to really do life together when you're injured, when you're up on top, when you're struggling. Not to mention just the dynamic between rookies and vets. I mean, the opportunity for the veterans to take these young guys and show 'em how to be a pro, but then also show 'em how to be a father or be a husband.
[00:40:18] Right. This is how we're going to,
[00:40:20] Lorenzo: We're gonna treat women. Yeah. Right. I mean, and to that point, it' all the same. A lot of time,,s we leave these separate lives. We have the great ability as athletes to do that onto the next play. And we do that in our lives. We're like, we're pros at football. But you get into somebody's personal life, it's like, man, what?
[00:40:37] Where's the discipline? The accountability, the love, the joy, the peace. Where's that at? Over here? You know? So you burn at both ends,, and it, or it doesn't align. And that tears people apart. So getting them to bring synergy to their life, right? Bthe y the surrendering of Christ, and then they start seeing that, and it just aligns in their impact, beyond what goes oon in he locker room, on the field,iit'sss just, itjustifieded
[00:41:02] It's, and it's just awesome to watch and see,
[00:41:03] Len: and it speak, it speaks to so many of the guys coming in who they just have not seen a good example. Right? Yeah. How it means what it means to walk with the Lord. Yeah. What it means to read scripture, right. What it means to be a husband.
[00:41:14] Things we've talked about already. But the power that they get to see that you don't have to. Separate those things. Correct. Like, like I can be a, you know, having a guy like this, or other players that I've mentioned that are, they're good football players, right? That helps gain respect. But just any professional athlete going, I'm gonna live this out and I'm gonna be bold about it and I'm gonna be vulnerable about it, but I'm not gonna divide myself into, I'm a football player and then I'm a Christian over here.
[00:41:43] Correct. Right. Yeah. They, that's a huge paradigm shift.
[00:41:49] Lorenzo: Yeah.
[00:41:49] Len: For a lot of guys, right. To go, whoa. Like, I think I mentioned Tony Dungy earlier, right? Like, you can have a Christian coach who's willing to be who he is unapologetically, right? And, for a lot of times in his career, he didn't win, but he's always stayed the same, right?
[00:42:08] When you see that example, like, hey, you can be a good dad, you can go home at night and be a ood husband, and I don't have to separate those things. That's a big aha moment, right? For a lot of these guys.
[00:42:19] Lindsay: You mentioned that Sean Taylor's death was something that really flipped a switch for you for sure, for people tthat are listening or watching and aren't familiar with the story.
[00:42:29] Sean Taylor was it. Other worldly talent, safety in Washington, and he was murdered in November. It was 2007. He flew home to Florida to check on his family because there had been a break-in the night before. Because he was injured is why he was able to go home. So you were on that team.
[00:42:50] I was in Washington covering that story, and I just remember having never seen anything like that up close and dealing with that. I was wondering if you could share your experience because there was a while that they thought he was gonna pull through.
[00:43:03] Lorenzo: Right? Yeah. Yeah. And I, you know, remember very vividly, I mean, I think for me it was really my first experience with mortality with someone being 23.
[00:43:13] Right. You're not thinking about death. You know, you're kind of in this moment, and as I reflect on where I was at that time, as far as who I was, you know, I was in the NFL. Playing, you know, making money. And I was unhappy. And I had already started seeing those guys' names that I mentioned earlier, James Thre, Ronaldo, and the Christian men on our team.
[00:43:35] Something was different about them. And that experience for me, the blessing was, is that I ended up surrendering my life because of what Sean was going through as well. He was going through a shift, you know, he had this perspective of what people may have thought of who he was, I think 'cause a year before what happened in the playoff game in Tampa Bay.
[00:43:52] And, but he was going through this transition with Pastor Brett and, just the people in his life of maturing, figuring out who he was in Christ, what that meant.
[00:44:01] Lindsay: He had become a father.
[00:44:02] Lorenzo: He had become a father, right? And he was thinking about getting married and just all these things that were really happening, and it was just abrupt..
[00:44:12] Just done, just all of a sudden. And so for me, it just made me like, wow, saw myself in him 'cause I was him. I wasn't, you know, a first-rounder, but I was playing. And so the relationship of me seeing him every day, the guy he was, just really impacted me so deeply. At the end of that year, I decided to give my life to Christ as well.
[00:44:34] It took me over, so you know, I hate that it took that, but I know his life and what he did and how he lived and what he was doing impacted so many people in a positive way out of that, out of his death. And so, it was definitely a hard time, but I think the guys around on that team, we, we bonded around that came closer.
[00:44:53] You know, a lot of those guys that was part of that team, I'm still really good friends with as well. And so it was, a hard time, but I think a lot of good things came from that, as far as guys shifting their perspective on what life and who they were going to serve. And for me was no longer serving myself.
[00:45:10] But how can I glorify God in everything that I do, whether it's at work in the football field, at home with my wife, or I didn't even have a wife then, which, crazy enough, I had just met my wife. Future wife in April. And so gave my life to the Lord. And we, you know, got baptized together, right?
[00:45:27] Neither one of our parents was married, and so we ended up getting married six months after we met, et years later, we're still married, right? And so just the impact of Sean Taylor, the way he lived his life, obviously what happened to him, I think, made me really hit me in my face. But watching him every day is what I remember.
[00:45:44] And like, man, this dude was really doing something., need to make a change too. So he inspired me to do that. And. The way he lived his life really impacted my family. So, you know, I have the opportunity to bring Zoe to the training Camp at Miles. I have Mason, and I have my older daughter, Vanessa. And so they get to see their mom and dad love on one another, love the Lord, and be exposed to what that looks like.
[00:46:05] And, hopefully, one day they'll start and they're doing it now, impacting people and really loving the Lord for themselves. So Sean Taylor did a lot; he had a lot of ripples. Based on the way he lived his life,, got impacted for God's glory.
[00:46:18] Lindsay: How? How did Faith help that team heal?
[00:46:21] Lorenzo: I think Pastor Brett did a phenomenal job, and he was very intentional.
[00:46:28] Like Lynn, is now as far as identifying guys to kind of help, infiltrate the locker room in a way, as far as loving on guys. And so, you know, the London Fletchers of the world, the James Ths, the Ronaldo Wind, you know, guys were seeking them, for guidance through that time. And, I think a lot of guys' lives have now changed.
[00:46:49] Kedrick, goon being another one. We had Erek Dock. We just had a lot of good men where I got to see it, and guys that weren't quite sure were having conversations with those guys, leaning on those guys, calling Pastor Brett. And so I think it really helped us be able to galvanize and stay together, and honor Sean in that moment.
[00:47:11] Lindsay: The bills had the situation 16 years later, after Sean happened. Yeah, Damar Hamlin. Yeah. Having a cardiac event on the field. What was that like for you when you? Yeah. When that was unfolding?
[00:47:24] Len: It was, I've described it before as surreal, and then it got really real. Thatt, you know, a lot of guys go down in football games, you know, and even hard hits, but most of the time they get back up, you know, and those, you know, 10, 12 minutes that he was down felt like an hour.
[00:47:49] You know, because, you could see, you know, the look on the doctor's faces. You could see the look on the trainer's faces that this was something different.
[00:47:59] Right? And so all of a sudden it goes from, you know, what down is it? And, to what's going on. He's not getting up. And all of a sudden, in mass, we're moving as a team and, you know, we're starting to kneel down and pray with guys.
[00:48:16] And, but you're close enough to hear, you know, what the doctors are saying and to visually see, you know, Denny Ellington doing compressions on 'em. And, all of a sudden, it went to, this is really real. Like we were in the middle of a first quarter of a big game, playoff implications where we're gonna be seated on Monday night, and all of a sudden,, that place is quiet.
[00:48:39] I mean. Dead quiet and you can hear the com, you know, the compressions and the doctors talking, and all of a sudden you're two minutes into that and you're praying, and then you're looking over and you're praying, and you're looking over, and all of a sudden, you know, the thought creeps into your mind about five minutes into it, like he could die.
[00:49:00] Right? I had never had that thought.
[00:49:02] Lorenzo: Right. You know
[00:49:02] Len: What Ido mean? He could be hurt really bad, you know, but all of a sudden, and the emotions, if you know, have seen any of that footage, the emotions are all over the place with our guys, you know, guys are crying, guys are able to look. You know, and by this time, bythee five, six-minute mark, the Bengals team has come over, you know, and there's an ambulance coming on and, you know, the image of Denny doing those compressions for nine minutes, you know, just felt like, like I said earlier, it felt like an hour.
[00:49:38] To going, you know, we're just praying, Lord, bring him back, You know? And, I remember, you know, hearing I was close enough to hear where they said we're gonna shock him, you know, and bring the paddles and, you know, so, you know, this is a serious deal. And so that was right around the nine or 10-minute mark, if I remember.
[00:50:01] And they shocked him. And, I believe they got a heartbeat on the first shock. Maybe it took two. But we heard he has a pulse, you know? And before you know it, man, he was in that ambulance, and you know, you're like, what? Do you know what happened? What just happened? You know, all of our minds are off of football, you know?
[00:50:21] And, I remember I went over to the ambulance door to try to, you know, pray over him somehow. And then by the time that pulled away, I looked back and Sean had gathered the whole team and was motioning me over to come and pray. And Lindsay, I can'., The only thing I could get outta my mouth was, Lord, bring him back.
[00:50:42] That's the only thing I could say. I don't think I said anything else other than, Lord, bring him back, Lord. Bring him back, Lord. Bring him back begging you, Lord. Bring him back. You know? And, you know, that I, you know, there was a moment, there were moments there. We didn't know what was going on.
[00:50:59] And
[00:51:00] Lindsay: I me, his heart had stopped on that field.
[00:51:02] Len: Yeah. Yeah. His heart had, you know, and the leadership Sean showed in that, in those moments, 'cause the officials came over and it was, you have five minutes to warm up. And I remember, Saran Neal, I remember Truda White, I remember guys going, just looking at 'em like, they're not gonna play a football game.
[00:51:22] There is no way. They weren't warming up. You know, they were crying. Right. You know, and I remember I went over close enough whereZach Taylor came over to Sean and the officials were there, and Sean said, he says, I'm gonna the hospital. He goes, if you guys play this game, whatever the league decides, so be it.
[00:51:42] But I'm going to the hospital. That's where I belong. And that just, I was so impressed with Sean's decisiveness, you know, and that was, I thought to myself, that's exactly what we should be doing.
[00:51:55] Lorenzo: Right.
[00:51:55] Len: And, You know, Sean very quickly then sent everybody to the locker room and we went in there and, I remember, Josh being part of kind of, you know, they had Goodell on the phone and they had the officials there, Zach Taylor had come over and we didn't know what we were gonna, you know, we're trying to hear like, he's on the way to the hospital.
[00:52:14] Is he still breathing?
[00:52:15] Lorenzo: Right.
[00:52:16] Len: They've got somebody talking to the ambulance. So it was just, you know, just praying for him. And the locker room was just up for grabs, guys, crying guys just beside themselves. Yeah. You know, and I remember Josh, if I, if I got this right, I remember for Allen, Josh Allen at some point coming over into that circle and saying, hihend Sean talked and Josh said something like, if one guy doesn't wanna play, we're not playing.
[00:52:44] Li,k,e get a pulse of the locker room. I think something like that. Josh went in and came quickly back and said, weWe'reot, no one's going out. You know? And so, Sean, by that time, Sean was said, Hey, we'll meet you guys at the airport. And a couple of us got in police cars and went to the hospital and we were there that night with his mom and dad, you know, with the doctors and, you know, up in that room.
[00:53:08] praying for him, you know, and getting on that plane coming back on early Monday morning. You know, we had a meeting that Monday morning, right aw nd Sean brought the whole team together and said, We're gonna pray. We just had a prayer meeting as a whole team, you know, and had prayer meetings every morning that week, or you know, that whole week.
[00:53:30] It was just like, I don't think we practiced once. Maybe it'll walk through. We played the Patriots, then next week. Yeah. But I don't think we had maybe a walkthrough, use the players were in, we didn't know if Sean, if he was gonna make it, if Damar was gonna make it. You know, we were starting to get reports, but it took a couple of days before we got them.
[00:53:48] Reports are like, okay, it looks like he's gonna progress brain damage. Looks like he's gonna be okay. But it's still early. He's still there. Some of our trainers stayed in Cincinnati. But it was all about how do we care for each other? How do we provide whatever anybody needs to get through this,,s and just to talk it out.
[00:54:09] And if we play New England and we don't practice, you know, so be it.
[00:54:14] Lindsay: Right.
[00:54:16] Len: And again, Sean and the ULAs leadership of not no one forcing us to, you gotta, we got a big game against New England on Sunday. They're like, this is about people, you know. Sean has said that from the beginning.
[00:54:29] He said that at the team meeting this morning, the most important thing we do as people. We're in the people business. Right. That's what he said this morning. You know, he reemphasized that all the time. And that we lived it out. You know, by God's grace, you know, I think by Friday or Saturday we had a, you know, Damar was on the screen in the theme room.
[00:54:51] You know, just he wouldn't talk, I don't think very much at that point. He was still kind of tubed up, but he made enough, you know, hand motions. The guys knew he was himself. And, you know, then, NAEM Hines takes the opening kickoff.. Yeah. You know, against New England. Right. You know, when they talk about a surreal moment.
[00:55:10] Yeah. You're like, what? You know?
[00:55:12] Lindsay: Yeah.
[00:55:13] Len: And so, it was a wake-up call for a lot of guys, you know. I remember I did chapel that, that next week, and I just said, Don't miss the miracle. You know, don't miss what we just saw. You know, we saw a man, you know, down for nine minutes, and we saw him brought back to life, and that's no accident.
[00:55:35] You know, God, by God's grace, he provided, you know, another opportunity for Damar. But I would be quick to say this: if that hadn't worked out well, God would still be good. You know, and God would still bring good out of that. I believe as hard as that would've been. Just like you witnessed, you went through. You guys went through with Sean Taylor.
[00:55:54] Lorenzo: Right.
[00:55:54] Len: That's who God is. Right. And it would've been tragic, and we're so grateful that Damar is playing an, he's got all his faculties. It's a miracle we witnessed. But I challenge the guys. I still sometimes have to think back and remember that, you know, unfortunately, some people forget.
[00:56:12] Right. They forget. They don't, you know, and that's what I try to say. Let's not forget this moment that we were on that field. We witnessed it. And then God, by his grace, brought him back to us. And, he's a living testimony. You know? I mean, he's moved on as far as he's a player. People think of him, I think more and more as a player, but we're always gonna think of Damar Hamlin for that night.
[00:56:32] Right. For sure.
[00:56:33] Lindsay: What did that mean to you? Like, what did you make of that? Just talking about the miracle part of it, just from your experience and your
[00:56:42] Len: Yeah.
[00:56:43] Lindsay: I mean, you know, learnings.
[00:56:44] Len: Yeah. When you, when life and death's in the balance right. You really find out what's important to people. I mean, to your point with how that wakes you up when you see a young person, I mean, I think Damar is probably 23.
[00:56:59] Yeah. Same age, right? Same position, you know. Yeah. But when you see that up close, if you have any kind of awareness, awareness is like, okay, there's something bigger than me. There's something bigger going on here. Right. And it was amazing to see the country rally and pray with. On ESPN. Yeah.
[00:57:25] Lindsay: Yeah.
[00:57:25] Len: Dan prayed, you know?
[00:57:26] Yeah.
[00:57:27] Lindsay: We were talking before Dan Orlovsky. Yeah, right. Praying out loud. Yeah. And he recently shared that, when you said earlier about sometimes it's uncomfortable, I thought right away of what Dan said, 'cause he said it, it wasn't comfortable, but he felt like he had to do it. Right. Right. You know, and I think it's, this is a topic that is uncomfortable for a lot of people.
[00:57:49] Len: It did provide an opportunity then, and even now, to have conversations with guys that were on the team. You know, that, you know, what brought, what came to your mind? What did that do inside of? You know, when we saw Damar go down, 'cause everybody handled it differently. Some guys just went into a shell and were just so quiet.
[00:58:09] Like they're just walking around the facility, just, you know, not interested in doing anything related to football
[00:58:17] Lorenzo: Right.
[00:58:17] Len: That week, you know, other guys are in the weight room just getting after the routine and doing their thing. But what it said to me, you know, was God's grace is real. Witness it, you know, watching our players rally around him, you know, and in the years that it, you know, it took him, it's taken him a while to come back from that.
[00:58:41] Lorenzo: Right.
[00:58:41] Len: You know, mentally, physically, I can only imagine what he would have to try to get his body to go through knowing that you would never think that would happen again, but right, right, right. Think of the mental hurdle he's had to overcome to get out and play the kind of football that he has to play in the league.
[00:58:58] Right. You know, so it's taught me a lot about him personally, you know? He's had an impact. I spent so much time in the defensive back room, so it's had an impact on our room, you know, dramatically. Right. You know, for people having conversations and Damar’s a Christian, you know, and Damar’s growing in his faith and being able to understand, the platform he now has, but also for him to just grow as a person is where he's at today.
[00:59:30] And it', a pleasure to walk alongside him. But I'll never forget that I'll never forget Damar Hamlin, I'll never forget those moments.
[00:59:36] Lindsay: Right.
[00:59:37] Len: You know, and, so, to God be the glory that, you know, for whatever reason he spared his life that night, you know? And I believe God's. Do tremendous things through Damar and all of us that witnessed that, you know, that paid attention.
[00:59:53] That didn't miss it. Right. That didn't miss it.
[00:59:56] Lindsay: Is there anything else you guys wanna add about something you would like people to know? You've shared so much that's so valuable and have been so open. I really appreciate it.
[01:00:06] Len: You know, I would, just say maybe we've said this already multiple times, but what a God that allows, ootball players chaplains to do something we love to do, be around something we love to do.
[01:00:21] They're passionate about football. We're passionate about football and competing. Yet we get an opportunity to have a real purpose behind it. I mean, wouldn't it be empty if all the years you played football, you know, all it came down to was just. Wins and losses. Right. And how much money did you make, or wouldn't it be just like, right?
[01:00:40] Oh, like really? Yeah, like that I put all that effort into, and it just came down to, oh, I got this really cool house. Right. Or I got this car. Right. But what a God that he says I want to be fully involved in, the NFL. Just like he wants to be fully involved in anything. Right. Right. And that we get to be a part of it.
[01:01:02] And what you said earlier, right? He does all the work.
[01:01:05] Lindsay: Yeah.
[01:01:05] Len: He does the work. We just have to be faithful. Right. We have to show up, be faithful. Right. We don't have to be perfect. We have to be willing to have conversations and love people and go through hard stuff with people and not have to feel like the outcome is ours to control.
[01:01:23] Right. Right.
[01:01:24] Lindsay: Do you think it's just as simple as finding what feels good and what your purpose might be? Do you know what I mean? When you're talking about your purpose? Yeah. Sometimes it's just like, what is the thing that makes you happy?
[01:01:35] Lorenzo: Yeah, I, so, you know, I've been listening to a lot of things, so I think there are three things, right?
[01:01:40] 'cause we remain in the image of God. So I, you know, am being creative. As a football player, I get to be creative with my body and do certain things, make these spectacular catches, rush to passor do these things that people go, Ooh, God created the universe. Right? Community, God is in constant community, right?
[01:01:59] God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, constant community. So you wanna be able to build community football, which allows you to have this great community of guys, women, and people that you're constantly around, that you get a chance to do life with an impact. And then I think it also, lastly, gives you an opportunity to contribute, give away things freely.
[01:02:19] Right. And so whether it's youth camps, going to hospitals, talking to a young guy, right?, and I don't expect it. Can't gimme nothing back. I'm not even looking for anything back. Right? It gives you that opportunity. If you can find that in something you enjoy doing, I think that's when you're ultimately happy.
[01:02:34] 'cause it's just this, football is just a tool, I think, to honor God, right? If, as a reporter, it's a tool to honor God in the way you do, right? You're creating a space right now, you're creating community, you can contribute, right? In those spaces. I think when people focus on that, then that's where your purpose lies.
[01:02:53] Yeah.
[01:02:54] and, not in the thing but operating out of those principles. And so that's why I think it's. That's what I think people should be searching for. How can I be creative? How can I be in community? How can I contribute? I love it. And then what tool is that? What did God gift me to be able to do?
[01:03:08] Well, right? We all have different gifts, spiritual gifts, and physical gifts. Right? What are those things that he's gifted me with? And that's why it's important to have people like a mentor, like a land that can help you kind of figure those things out. And then that's the area you want to be in. So I'm no longer a player.
[01:03:26] I, I, was cool enough or good enough, or had great foresight 'cause I had good people around me, or fortunate enough, I guess is the word I was looking for, to be able to see where I didn't get my identity caught up in the football. I realized that it was a tool. Now I just transitioned it. Toto coaching, right?
[01:03:41] You have other guys who have transitioned it to the finance world or to real estate. Yeah. But they're doing really well because they understand that their identity is not in the game, right? They're taking their attributes, their God giving attributes, their identity in Christ, and just applying it to the next thing.
[01:03:57] And they do really well. And that's why I try to help guys understand, right? When yougive your life to crisis, the football is just the tool, the avenue. But when it's over, you have these other opportunities to do it too. So I guess what I say, I'll start, what I, why, what I began with is if you can find something, you can be creative, being community and be able to contribute.
[01:04:17] You're gonna find your purpose, you know, with God at the foundation of those things.
[01:04:21] Lindsay: We've gotta wrap, 'cause I can keep you guys here all night. But, you mentioned two things with players that you try to do, encouraging them to understand the word, and then you also said feet on the field. You were saying feel the ground, like feel the ground with your feet.
[01:04:37] Nature.
[01:04:38] Len: You know, God reveals himself in two ways, right? He reveals himself through nature, right? And he reveals himself through his word. Right? And that's one of the biggest, one of the first things I start with as guys are seeking, 'cause they wanna know who is God, what does God look like? How do I relate to God?
[01:04:52] What does God think of me? Right? Well, let's look at who God is, and then, being in nature, general revelation is, you see the detail of God, right? You see the beauty of God, right? Have you seen a sunset? Right? Have you seen the leaves change in the fall? Right? So, maybe we mentioned this earlier, but one of the things I do every day when I get to the facility is I walk around the field for about a lf an hour, our practice field, and it's the sun usually is coming up by the time I get there.
[01:05:21] And it's just a, it's a great peaceful time. I'm listening to my worship music, and I've had players who come along with me on that walk, or they'll do a lap with me. Some of the guys do take off their shoes. They're, you know, they do the grounding thing, but the idea of, hey, take a look around. God's talking to you all the time, right?
[01:05:39] If you just observe it enough, you can learn about how how he's revealing himself to you. And then into scripture where he goes into real detail about here's who I am and here's, here's the characteristics of, and here's my son who's the exact representation of the father, and let's look at how he treated people.
[01:05:57] Right. There's no greater joy in life than to introduce people to the God who loves them. There's no. I don't care how much money you make, what your position is, but the next deal you think you can make or position you can con, there is no greater joy in introducing someone to the God who loves them.
[01:06:18] And to see their eyes light up and their heart begin to grow, to go, God really does love me and he has a purpose for me, and he has a plan that I, and it, can affect, I marry and how I raise my kids and how I do my job. Like God loves me that much, that he's inviting me into his plan. Come on, what do you want?
[01:06:41] Right? I mean, so I don't know if that answered any question that you were asking, but,
[01:06:47] Lindsay: I think it did.
[01:06:49] I learned so much from that conversation. I wanted to share that Sean McDermott told me, when we recorded this before I talked to Len and Lorenzo, that it was obviously his idea, as I said, to bring him in.
[01:07:02] But he said that he realized that he needed someone there for him. So it was just as much a coach realizing that he wants to be spiritually, you know, straight, and just have someone that he can lean on too. But it really is fascinating to watch, and I saw it with my own eyes, just how Len has become a fabric of that organization, not just guys that we saw coming up, asking to set time with him to talk about faith, but also very much out there on the field.
[01:07:28] You could just tell that it was another trust point, that they really looked forward to seeing him and seeking him out, which was cool. You didn't think I was gonna forget the joke, did you? Why did the sponge go to church?
[01:07:44] It was holy. I had to stay on topic. Thank you so much for listening to to or watching this episode. If you're interested, by the way, in hearing more about the day-to-day life in the NFL, from draft day to big moments like the Super Bowl, check out Alex Okafor's Things No One Tells You Podcast episode. I loved Alex's story.
[01:08:04] I loved what he shared about his journey as well as what he shared about navigating grief. The link to his episode and others are in our show notes. So thank you again. See you next week. We appreciate you being here on Things No One Tells You. Thanks so much for joining me. I can't wait to see you back here next week.
[01:08:22] Please don't forget, follow and subscribe to things no one tells you. And of course, if you're listening on Apple Podcasts, don't forget to leave a five-star review because that's really what helps people get more. Listeners, we would love to grow this community. We are so grateful that you're a part of it.
[01:08:37] See you next time.
