Making the Most of a Power Pause with Neha Ruch: Ep 4
Highlights from the episode:
Reframing a career pause as a power move and how it is changing the narrative
What Neha wishes more partners understood about career pauses
The unexpected creativity that comes from stepping back
Why redefining ambition means more than just taking a break
How to own your pause and come back even stronger
Podcast show notes:
I’ve talked to a lot of women about their careers, but what Neha Ruch said about “nailing the dismount” when leaving a job? That stuck with me, and I knew I wanted to learn more.
In this episode, Neha, the founder of Mother Untitled and author of The Power Pause, opens up about the quiet grief of stepping back from work, the invisible expectations placed on modern mothers, and the mindset shifts that helped her, and thousands of others, reclaim their career and life narrative on their own terms. She and I dive into the real stuff: the pressure to “lean in,” the fear of losing your spot, the quiet guilt that follows moms into daycare pickup lines and exit interviews.
Neha shares the practical strategies and hard-earned insights that help women take intentional pauses from work, stay connected to their ambition, and return with clarity, confidence, and strength.
What You’ll Discover:
Why Neha traded a dream job for a different kind of fulfillment (18:30)
How to talk about being “on pause” in a way that feels strong and self-defined (25:09)
Why women need to start “nailing the dismount” when stepping back from a job (28:11)
How motherhood can spark, not stifle, creativity and reinvention (38:01)
Practical tools for navigating finances, identity shifts, and career pivots (47:18)
Neha responds to listener questions about how to approach a pause (53:04)
Whether you’re a parent navigating your own pause, a partner trying to understand it, or simply someone rethinking what success looks like—this conversation is a guidepost. Neha's groundbreaking work is shifting how we view, understand, and talk about career pauses.
Neha doesn’t just talk about redefining ambition. She shows us how it’s done.
Connect with NEHA
The Power Pause site: www.thepowerpause.com
Find Neha on Instagram @neha_ruch
Be sure to subscribe to Things No One Tells You—Lindsay’s podcast all about the real, unfiltered conversations we don’t always have but should. From big names to everyday voices, each episode dives into the moments that shape us. Listen wherever you get your podcasts!
Follow along with Lindsay below!
FULL TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:00] Neha: There is still so much opportunity once you're in a pause, and I think the thing that has gotten terrible publicity is that your interests are gonna die in motherhood. That your goals are gonna die in motherhood and that your network's gonna die. And actually, there is a way, a strategic way of mitigating the risk to your next career of returning, but also in a very deep and profound way to have now that you've checked the ego in the door to open yourself up to new opportunities and experiences.
[00:00:31] Lindsay: Hey everybody, I'm Lindsay Czarniak and this is Things No One Tells You. This is a podcast about the behind the scenes moments that shape who we are, those things that also are really relatable and really connect us. So each week I'm gonna talk with Newsmakers Trailblazers in the worlds of sports, entertainment, all things, but also everyday folks, people who are talking about the real stuff that no one tends to share.
[00:00:55] Follow me at Lindsay Czarniak and be sure to subscribe, rate, and review things no one tells you wherever you like to listen. Hey guys, welcome to this episode of Things No One Tells You, or TNOTY as we love to call it. It's just so catchy. I was gonna change. and if you're listening, I'll describe what I'm wearing. Because I decided not to change because I was just so comfortable. And I was like, you know what, you're getting real life Lindsay right now because this is me. During a day of running back and forth shuttle service, doing some work in between, and I'm wearing what has become my favorite sweatshirt.
[00:01:35] And, it's super soft. It's just that classic jersey gray. And it says “Live From New York. It's Saturday night.” And I bought this when I was with my husband, shopping at the NBC store because I love SNL. And I just love what this represents. I love that moment on the show. But when I wanted to share with you, and the reason I did partially also keep this on is because I am taking an improv class.
[00:02:02] And I am really not very good at all, but I really like to challenge myself in ways that make no sense. And so I signed up for this class because I've always been just interested in acting. I just, I enjoy doing it like on the side, but truly my experience is capped with a little community theater stuff like that, college plays, whatever, but anyway, so I do, I enjoy that as an outlet of my creative whatever. but so I didn't really think through the fact that I was signing up for an improv class, which is definitely not a traditional acting class. And what I, what's become really cool is I didn't know anyone in my class, but it's at eight o'clock on Mondays and.
[00:02:47] I really love it because it is really scary and it's really hard. And what my teacher Mike always talks about is don't try to be funny. Don't try to go for the joke. It's really a practice and listening to whoever you're on stage with at the moment and being in the moment and finding the humor in just the improv of it all. So anyway, I say that because it's taught me a lot about just being humble, listening, trying to, do something that is really outta your comfort zone. But I love it. Sometimes I leave and I'm like, I really was horrible and empathetic and I, it just makes you wanna get up and do it again. for some reason anyway, I also really believe that it's important for everyone to like, have something that they like to try or do on the side. And I certainly believe that when there's something that you haven't done before, just give it a go and why not? So anyway, I'm, last night was our final class of the semester and it was just a lot of fun.
[00:03:50] It was just random fun. I wish I could take you with me. Maybe we'll do a podcast from there sometime. But anyway, I am really excited about this episode because it tackles something that I have been thinking about a lot, which really boils down to balance. and my guest, Neha Ruch. I was so obsessed with having her as a guest on this podcast because I saw her doing the Drew Barrymore show. And when I realized what they were talking about, I literally was like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. And the reason is Neha Ruch wrote a book, and this is where I saw her talking about it on Drew Barrymore.
[00:04:29] Her book is called The Power Pause, and it is all about the intentional act of putting a pin in your career to stay at home and be with your children, raise your children with the intention of then going back to work on the other side of that. And honestly, I'm sure there are other examples out there, but it was the first time that I had been watching something and I saw someone talking about and putting a name to what that time could be.
[00:05:01] so I've been thinking about this a lot because. Somewhere along the line, and my kids are 11 and eight, but someone said to me, and this was in the past two years, you know the thing no one tells you is that you really lose them at 12. And I can, honestly, I'm not gonna cry, but it makes my heart hurt so bad when I think about that moment. Because at that moment when a friend, a colleague, I believe, said that to me, we were just talking about our kids. I was like. Why the hell doesn't anyone say that? Then? if that's actually reality, and I can tell you now because of where I am with my kids, it feels like it's becoming reality.
[00:05:42] Why don't people share that and talk about that? Because what I know is when you're in the thick of it, in the grind of your kids being little and all the things that go along with that, and sure there are amazing moments, but there are moments that make you for sure exhausted that sometimes you just feel like you're slogging. If I framed that time in a way of thinking like, okay, you've got this capped amount of time to really enjoy that. I think I would look at the whole thing differently. My son is doing a basketball camp, but I have become the most embarrassing person at the dropoff.
[00:06:16] So this is something that's really interesting to me is the fact that really in the course of a year, now we're there. I walked him into this basketball camp, and the first day I needed to obviously make sure that he was going in the right direction and had never been there before. And so I went, but he was literally like, "Mom. Stop." And stop talking to him. Stop looking at him. And I was like, oh my God, he's 11. He's 11 and he's still so sweet. But in this moment when other people are around, ugh, it just goes so fast. And I knew it, but now I'm like, oh my gosh, I really gotta figure out how I'm what I'm doing when I'm in these moments and how I can squeeze the most out of it, but respect his individuality.
[00:07:08] So anyway, oh my goodness, it took me back to what has been on my mind. When someone said that to me about your kids really starting to pull away at 12. They want to be more with their friends, and then it happens really fast. It makes me think a lot about my own desires and drive, and I had an interview with my grandma that I did for, a podcast episode and my grandmother who passed last year, and I asked her what the secret was and what the one thing when she thinks back that she's grateful for. And without missing a beat, my grandma started crying and she said, you've just gotta make sure to keep your kids close.
[00:07:46] And like my kids had just run in the room. And I think she was saying that, but I was like, there is something so special about meeting your kids where they are and taking the time to be present. And I've talked about this before, but God knows how hard it is to be present when we have these phones and they have the options of screens and things like that.
[00:08:06] But, it also, I've thought a lot about how I grew up and my mom did not... she stayed at home for two years and she always says that it was because I guilted her into it, which I know is not true. But, in a way my mom took a power pause from teaching to be with my brother and I, and then came back on the other side.
[00:08:27] And I know she went back to teaching. She eventually was in administration, but I don't, that wasn't celebrated. So I think what I love about what Neha has done and what she's brought to life with her platform, Mother Untitled, is really helped shine a spotlight on, this can be a narrative that we are proactively and excitedly leaning into, if not for ourselves, for other women.
[00:08:51] That there is a way that you can actually use that not only to the benefit of your family, but that you can use that in a way that it is going to help you on the other side of it, when you do decide, you know what, I wanna go back and I wanna do that thing, I wanna explore whatever it is, X, y, z. I'm gonna take a moment to share a little levity here because for those of you that follow on social, you know that I like to do a Joke of the Day.
[00:09:14] And this one is, in honor of kids that still wear footy pajamas. All right, what color socks do bears wear? They don't wear socks 'cause they have bare feet. That's one of my all time old favorites. But anyway, I am, I'm just so excited to have you hear this conversation because not only does Neha talk about her own experience, in a really fast paced career job and why she decided to take a power pause, but also, she talks about the one thing that I have found so much anxiety with anyone out there who has transitioned jobs, decided to leave a job maybe with the hope of looking for something better that you wanted, or if you were let go, you were laid off, or whatever the reason.
[00:10:03] I think sometimes what I hear women talk about more and more, and men too, is that question... When you're in a place and you're with people you don't know, maybe some that you do, and they're like, Hey, so what are you doing now? I know I hate that because now my life looks a lot different. I can't, I don't have a one line answer like, oh, I'm hosting SportsCenter. Oh, I'm covering this. Oh, I'm doing that. I had found so much anxiety around oh, now I'm, I'm freelancing and I'm doing some of this work and some of this work. And it's like I am telling myself to shut up 'cause I just keep talking. That is such a hard thing and it all boils down to self-worth.
[00:10:44] And if you've been someone who's been in a wild workforce and you're driven and you still like, feel like you are so excited about the work that you wanna do, it's a really hard thing when you make a transition. And I speak to that from personal experience, it's like you at different times, different doors open, different doors close, and a lot of times you never know why those doors are closing.
[00:11:08] So when Neha wrote about and talked about and what you're going to hear, specific language to use when you're in those situations, I was literally like, I cannot read and underline this fast enough because it just makes so much sense and there are so many concrete great examples. But also at the end of the day, it is like she has really touched on this huge connecting piece, which is everyone is really in this together and no one really cares and just be confident and own you and do you, and I think at the end of the day, for me, a lot of that comes down to this constant push and pull of really wanting to do the jobs that we're passionate about, but also really wanting to maximize the time that just keeps getting smaller and smaller as kids get older.
[00:11:56] Talking with Neha Ruch was such a treat. Again, like I said, she's the founder of Mother Untitled, the author of The Power Pause. We dive into the things no one tells you about taking a break from your career, how it's not a luxury, and it's definitely not the end. Neha shares how she used her pause to grow. That was something else that I thought was just really eye-opening and interesting. She talks about the surprising lessons she's learned about ambition and how to reframe motherhood as a space of self-discovery, not disappearance. Oh my God, and come here. When you leave your children alone, how much makeup do you have? Did you, anyway? I did not plan that. I hope you love this. Let me know what you think. I am so excited to introduce all of you. if you don't know her already, to Neha Ruch.
[00:12:30] Neha, thank you so much for joining me. I just have to share out of the gate that when I heard about The Power Pause, your book and when I read more about Mother Untitled, it was like this magnetic force pulling me to it for so many different reasons. 'cause I just love what you're doing, the narrative of working women, taking a pause with the intention of coming back even better on the other side. Welcome and how are you? And let's just start with where are you right now?
[00:13:08] Neha: Aw. Thank you. You'll appreciate that. I am at home, my two kids, our babysitter just arrived.
[00:13:17] Obviously the kids are off of school because why not? And coming off of the last few months where I had the privilege to get to see this book out into the world, it's been a really interesting moment for me to figure out how to continue this work while making it sustainable, because I still want more time with my kids.
[00:13:38] Lindsay: And that's really what the basis of this is founded on right. Is, and I don't wanna speak for you, but right, The Power Pause. How did this come to be? Where did this idea come from for you?
[00:13:50] Neha: Yeah, so I started work on this actually in 2017. I had my child in 2016 on New Year's Day and he's so punctual, so it's very on brand for him.And I was rocking with him in the middle of the night thinking, yeah, I'm sleep deprived. Yes, there's milk everywhere. But I actually finally feel at peace, and I think something about that I had been looking for a long time and hadn't found it in my career.
[00:14:25] And then I chose to initially downshift. So I went to part-time work and eventually would pause, but as soon as I did, I started hearing, "Are you giving up? Are you going to be bored all day? And did you waste that business school education?" And I thought, where did this come from? Because A, it's making me feel bad, but B, I'm meeting all these incredible women who, similar to me, have clocked in a decade in their career, have really equitable relationships with their partners.
[00:14:55] Like they're not serving these guys cocktails. At the end of the day, they are like considering freelancer, consulting, or they're like tinkering with a new idea. None of it matches the tropes. And when I looked around, there was such great content around the traditional working parent, right? Like the Lean In movement, the Girl Boss era.But it seemed to count anyone like myself, who was just taking their foot off the gas for a moment to lean into motherhood, it seemed to count us out. So I started this as a project and it's obviously grown since.
[00:15:29] Lindsay: So what's funny is when you just said that it actually gave me chills, and the reason is because when Lean In came out, I was. All in on, I was like, I met Cheryl Sandberg at this, on the sidelines of a Vikings game. And I remember being like, oh my God. and I do believe in that moment it resonated so deeply with me. Like I was at ESPN, I'm in my, I had my daughter in 2016. I had my son in 2014. So we had that timing in common, but, it was around that time that I was just like, this is, this is how it's gonna be and I'm gonna take them on the road and I've gotta figure this out.
[00:16:09] And that, and I was very much in a highly, and still it's a highly competitive field that I'm in, but when I was at ESPN, it was like, I, remember being like, I'm just gonna take eight weeks of maternity leave with my first child. I'm like, I don't need more. I don't need more. And I hadn't had a child yet. And I just remember being like, I was so terrified of losing my spot. Not that I felt like it was going to happen maliciously or anything, but I just was... The narrative was, you just gotta be there and you know how many people are behind you. So it was fascinating to me once I had my son and I was like, oh my God. So when you're describing the rocking and the being in that moment and being surprised and just feeling all the feels of what motherhood brings, and I know that's a different circumstance for everyone.
[00:17:01] That really, it speaks to me because I feel like for me, what I've learned is that motherhood has shed a light on for me what is satisfying in the work that I do and what is worth it anyway. So you're, the career that you were in before you paused, can you describe what that was like for our listeners.
[00:17:21] Neha: I loved my career and it didn't disappear. And I think that I've only recently realizing, I graduated college when social media was so nascent, like Twitter wasn't there yet, right? Yeah. And so I got so much of life as luck. And I got, they were like, you're 22, you should probably do the social media research to figure out what people think of, T-Mobile or Chili's. I was in advertising. And it ended up being the foundation for me to climb the ranks very quickly because no one else was paying attention to social media.
[00:17:59] And ironically, my first roles were focused on millennial women and mothers. Marketing to them, understanding them through the lens of using social media to listen. That was my whole thing. And obviously I could have never considered how that would eventually lead here. But I ended up really getting to a place where I was senior in agency land, and the politics had outpaced my maturity.
[00:18:30] Like I was in, I was too young to participate in those. So I was feeling like the ick factor from politics. I loved what I did. So I actually went to business school. I got into Stanford, and I went to business school because I wanted a train stop to surround myself with smart people and figure out what came next. And I got what on paper was my dream job. I was like, oh, I'll just go to this tech company and run brand marketing there. It was marketed towards millennial women. It was a company called Zola. So if you got married in the like 20 13, 20 14 era, that was like your registry. And on paper it all made sense, but there was still this feeling of I was climbing... I was trying to contort myself to fit in the spaces right. And prove my value. And I think I really loved what I did and then, but I found that sense of belonging and not having to try so hard. And ironically, I think I looked at Bodhi and thought maybe this is the train stop that I was looking for in business school to surround myself with a different set of people and figure out what came next. So I don't think I stepped into that time with him ever believing like that this was a career ender. So that was the mismatch between my experience with him and the, and what I was hearing.
[00:19:50] Lindsay: Wow. And so then what?
[00:19:54] Neha: So then I had started this… I was consulting, I was at the office two days a week at first, and, because I went part-time. And then I started to meet these women and think, I wanna shine a light on you. Like you, Caroline, who wasn't merchandising and just got laid off and you're freelancing, but you're at home with your kid. Or you, her name was Susie K. And she had been at HSBC. She was a banker and she just didn't wanna fly to Hong Kong anymore with a little baby.
[00:20:23] And she was like, I've clocked in my 12 years. I know I can go back. I built, and I wanted that, those stories to be told because that did not match the sort of stay at home mom perception of being shut in or having tripped and fallen into motherhood without experience. And I felt like we needed a rebrand of the woman pausing their career so that no one else had to feel like when they paused, they were suddenly this apron clad caricature because the women I was meeting,
[00:21:02] Lindsay: It's life. I love it. It's coconut. Your dog's name is Coconut? Oh, I love this.
[00:21:10] Neha: Yes. She's my favorite child. She's the only one who behaves in our house, but it's literally the first time she's barked ever.
[00:21:16] Lindsay: What kind is she?
[00:21:17] Neha: She's a mini bernadoodle. She's delicious. She really matches our family 'cause she's brown with like black hair. It's cute.
[00:21:24] Lindsay: I love it. I love it. Our, we have an Irish doodle and I just can't, I can't get enough of him. He's just, he gives the best hugs.
[00:21:32] Neha: I know. She's like genuinely my parents keep being like, she's the only one who greets us with so much joy.
[00:21:39] Lindsay: Things None Tells You about Your Pets.
[00:21:41] Neha: There's no moods, there's no, she's just there. So I really wanted to profile a bunch of women who upended the tropes about stay-at-home motherhood and show that actually there was no such thing as the black and white idea of stay at home and working.And so many of us were existing in between. So I started it as a very small blog and a newsletter and I sent it to 400 of my contacts,
[00:22:07] Lindsay: And were you highlighting people in the newsletter? Is that how it began?
[00:22:10] Neha: Correct. And I had a free Squarespace blog, three posts a week and my, that was it. I was going to profile my own experience overthinking this, because the reality is I did eventually fully pause and I had my second child and it was this constant... constant having to work through what it felt like to have to walk into rooms where people would say, what do you do? Oh yeah.
[00:22:40] And I would either word-vomit on them, or as soon as I was home with my kids, their eyes would glaze over or be like, that's so sweet, I could never do that. I really spent those years, and I'm so glad I had those years building the work alongside, having actually paused, even though at the time I would really struggle with looking around and being like, oh, that platform's growing so much and this conversation is so important, but it can't be that big. 'Cause I'm still choosing to be at home with my kids. And there's an irony of starting the first platform about women pausing when you're on a pause. And yet I'm so glad because every one of the chapters of the book is having run into an issue and having had to overthink it to come up with the language that I would feel good about.
[00:23:30] Lindsay: When you talk about people asking you about what you are doing, one thing that I love about what you've written is you actually have thought through and give specific examples about how to phrase that conversation. And, look, I think this conversation, I am hoping, because I know that the people that are listening to this, they are moms.
[00:23:54] They are also, I'm sure, folks that are not mothers. They are women who have chosen to stay home. There are women who have continued to work, but I do really believe that what you've hit upon is, and like through this, this topic you have come across and provided really valuable ways for people who are in all spheres of that. Because when I'm reading through like the specific examples you have of keep your answer succinct, pick your words carefully, and you said, "I like to say, 'I get to be home with my kids.'" And literally when I was reading this and I'm like, oh, I get to be home with my kids and you would've started with, right now I am home with my kids.
[00:24:32] I just think it is so much in our framing. It's so much of our overthinking. You've hit on overthinking already and it's I don't know, being in that right, being in that room. So I do think one of the big questions, and I also really wanna talk about when you discuss if someone chooses to do the power pause, the financial conversations that you can have and what that looks like. But in terms of taking the pause, what do you think women should really be thinking about if they're on the verge of making that decision? If they're trying to make the decision, what are the key things that you've learned that you think are really important?
[00:25:09] Neha: Yeah. I think three pieces, right? One is I want you to take this sense that you are giving up on your ambition and your feminism and put it away, right? I think that is one of the things that haunts women when they're making a career shift, especially if they have. Gain so much self-worth and experience in climbing the ranks. This idea that they are somehow giving up, no. All of that incredible experience goes with you. Like all of those accomplishments do not evaporate.
[00:25:40] I want you to think about this as another layer of non-traditional experience that you're putting on top of that identity, right? Like your identity includes you are a 10 year brand marketer that goes with you. Now you're going to include these sort of other ways in which to explore and layer onto that. Your ambition is not defined solely by that title. It's also defined by just the determination to do things aligned with your values and have the trust that it's going to keep adding, right? We can get into feminism more, but I think the second piece is the financial piece that I think so often we assume, by the way, that stay-at-home motherhood or career pauses are a luxury.
[00:26:20] I wanna dispel the idea that one side, whether you're working or staying at home, is a luxury, right? Because when we associate one side with that word, we deem it less worthy of support, and we deem it less worthy of value. And I think one of the fears that when women pause, they're like, am I giving up on my financial independence? And it is a risk, right? And I think it's really important that women or men who are preparing for that pause spend at least six months preparing with their partner ahead of time. And so they're having conversations at that point about what do we want or need for this chapter in our life? And it's at that juncture as you're thinking about household income out, the values of your home and budgeting for that, and you're trying to figure out the math, that you also decide that if someone is pausing or shifting to provide care, work in the home, the partner working outta the home is dependent on that partner, too.
[00:27:21] It's at that moment you decide we are an interdependent household. The partner working outta the home who can single-task. I always use the example of my husband who was building a tech company. He could not have gotten on that flight to San Francisco at the drop of a hat if there wasn't a security net at home that allowed him to do that.
[00:27:39] But I think having that conversation to establish that mutual respect for contribution and interdependence is so key because without that, you're entering into a risky, vulnerable situation. And we certainly can, and of course I talk about it in the book, all the different thing, pieces of that. And then the last part, which I failed at, but I highly encourage other people to not feel that resigning. Resigning gracefully. It's not just like a tantrum. Yeah. I did not,
[00:28:09] Lindsay: Do you mean from your job?
[00:28:10] Neha: Yes.
[00:28:11] Lindsay: And and I do, I just wanna sprinkle in here that one of the things that I highlighted and was like, I've gotta talk about this, as you said, "nailing your dismount." You called it nailing what? How to nail your dismount. That's what you're talking about, right? The leaving of the thing. Yes. Explain.
[00:28:27] Neha: Yeah. So I feel like when you're preparing right, you've, mentally wrapped your head around, this is a chapter you financially planned. Whether it was a financial no-brainer or not, you feel safe and protected, then you go to resign. And the ideal resignation is what I call in the loop or not. I'd call organizational behavior in the loop resignation, right? Which is you're keeping your manager in the loop; you are preparing with them. I think this is also a great idea for women who aren't necessarily committed to fully pausing to consider. This is the moment where you are working with your manager and saying, I really, am I trying to optimize for less stress or more time with my child? And maybe that means I'm gonna consider what my other options are? Is it going part-time? Is it mapping my school, my workday to the school day?
[00:29:17] This is where you and your manager might be able to explore other options besides the full pause. Because there are other options available. And I think it's important for you, or anyone who's listening, who's considering a shift to consider all those options. Because if you do love your job, there are ways in which to talk to mentors, to talk to other people outside of your particular employer, and see what else might be available to you.
[00:29:46] If you still wanna pause, then you know, the in the loop model would be keeping your manager and anyone else related to the decision abreast so that it's not like I'm dropping in and saying, I'm giving you my two weeks. They're bought into the process and then you're essentially networking on your way out because what that meaning you're having coffee is with everyone from the executive assistant that you loved to, someone in another department that you really enjoyed getting to know,
[00:30:14] Lindsay: I failed so badly. I know. Keep going.
[00:30:18] Neha: Because they are your bridge back. They are the way in which if you choose to return to that particular industry, then you're essentially able to stay, using those warm connections. And I think it, in another way, also dignifies the time you've spent there. it acknowledges that you've built this incredible network of relationships that belong to you. They don't belong to Google. If you're leaving Google, they belong to you.
[00:30:50] Lindsay: And they're... exactly. And they're no one else's. It's just, yeah. I've just really hit home because I was like, I did not land my dismount. And, I don't know. I just think there are so many, there's such a perception because no one really talks about this or has ventured into this space that you're either working or you're not. And you're dedicated and you're not. And I do think one question I had a friend, Alexis, who knows I'm talking to you, and she was saying, I do think that it's a different, it depends what the industry is, because she said she has seen examples of women who leave to take the pause and then come back and they can come back.
[00:31:32] But they're in a lesser role. And it might be industry to industry, I don't know. but I think that's really valuable advice that you just shared about exit meetings or just relationship growing meetings before you're doing the thing. Yeah. Do you, what do you think about that in terms of industry? Do you think that there are ways to combat that?
[00:31:56] Neha: Yes, I think it is. I think she's 100% right. It is industry specific and I think knowing your industry and the nuances of your industry are important, right? Like we have some, we have Tina Richardson in the book as an example. She was a lawyer. Her recommendation is keep your bar up. Like it does not matter. Keep your bar up to preserve optionality, right? Yeah. And then there's, I would say finance, someone from finance might say, try to get a two-day a week, try and negotiate the two-day a week work week, before you fully exit. And, or stay, because that is an option, right? There was a woman I met in Dallas at HSBC and she, the way she got that two-day a week work week was she called a friend who had a friend at JP Morgan who had negotiated a two-day work week. And she took that template and she put it in front of her manager.
[00:32:57] And it's not to say don't fully, don't, absolutely not, you should never pause in finance. It's to say that there are certain industries that are more impacted than others. What's interesting is I always thought medicine was historically very challenging, like physicians. I was down in Charlottesville, Virginia, and there was a woman who worked at the, the hospital down in Richmond and she had, she said at the beginning of the year,they will ask you, what percent effort do you wanna be operating at?
[00:33:23] Now, that's terrible phrasing, but she, what? She said, I wanna be at 50% effort. That's how it's called, like tea. And so I think knowing the nuances of your industry is really important. I think historically, industries that allow for freelance and consult consultative work and part-time work, whether that be marketing or operations, project management, creative industries, I think those are not, interestingly much easier because, and this is the other part of it, in response to your friend Alexis, a lot of it relies on, how can you stay strategically connected just enough to build your portfolio of work while pause, such that you, when you're returning, you're actually very clearly, you very clearly have ways in which you've stayed. You've stayed relevant and connected to the industry.
[00:34:24] Lindsay: Yeah. You haven't completely lost. It's not, it is easy for someone to see, oh, this person has kept up. Or is, it's not that big of a move to see that person. It's funny, too, because I think probably part of just leaning into this is, leaving your ego at the door a little bit. And what I mean by that, in my own experience, when I think back, sometimes people can't help themselves in the words that they use.
[00:34:54] And it's traditional and you just have to not let it get, not let it bother you. 'Cause I do remember times where maybe my shift was being changed and it was like, we thought that you were having kids and you wouldn't want to travel back and forth all this and. It didn't matter that they didn't realize that the part that I love the most is being on the ground and the interactions and traveling, but it's sometimes people are not gonna just say things in the kindest or most above board way and that can really get to you. I remember that being like, what? And then that enhances the narrative of you're either this working mom and you're all in or you're not, right?
[00:35:39] And I think this makes me think about that too, a lot. But I love the example of thinking about if you're on the verge of a two day work week or that example you just gave of staying in the loop. I think that's great. And I also love the part in your book talking about during a pause, the mom connections. And just about the importance of that. What did you learn when you really went there and really started looking at just the relationships and what that means?
[00:36:09] Neha: I think what you're starting to get to, which I think is the other thing I would, it's a nice segue from where we were, if there's still so much opportunity once you're in a pause. And I think the thing that has gotten terrible publicity is that your interests are gonna die in motherhood. That your goals are gonna die in motherhood and that your network's gonna die. And actually, there is a way to, from a tactical perspective, a strategic way of mitigating the risk to your next career returning, but also in a very deep and profound way to have now that you've checked the ego in the door to open yourself up to new opportunities and experiences.
[00:36:50] So I'll use my own example, right? When you step into a career pause and you have been on a trajectory for so long, you are going to feel lost for a second. You're gonna feel like, wait a second, someone told me. What success looked like before it, and that was what I needed to get done to get that salary bump or that promotion.
[00:37:16] And suddenly no one's giving me that. And so the next best thing is, I guess my successes have my kids' behavior. And we all know that's a terrible recipe. I was like, oh no. Sitting near my like dog crying at my door and my child yelling outside the, and so you have to, move through that and then think, maybe now that I've checked my ego at the door, I can come up with my truest metrics of success. And that could be, and I always say I obviously have a lot of examples in the book and guidance, but if you do nothing, if you don't get the book, write in great detail what your ideal day is gonna be in five years. Who are you spending time with? How do you feel in your body? How do you feel in your mind?
[00:38:01] What are you working on? Because it's gonna reveal to you what your truest goals are. And then you can have three buckets, professional, personal, and family goals, right? And, professionals could be meeting a mom friend in a different industry every month. And that's what I did for a period, because motherhood, once you've gotten past those goals, you start thinking, where do I find those small, measurable metrics of success that move me forward? It's really available to you, right? Like that professional exploration. That exploration. It can happen on the playgrounds, it can happen on play spaces. It starts with, "Oh, I love your diaper bag, or I love your, what pediatrician do you see? And the next thing you're like, oh, I love that role.
[00:38:53] I love that idea. You're tinkering on." And I use this example of this woman, Priscilla de Muon in California, who ended up meeting a friend of hers, a mom friend, every week. In the backyard for burrito backyard sessions and they would be sounding boards for each other every Wednesday afternoon to work through their career to get clarity together. Wow. Or this other woman, Jacqueline, who you know, was sitting on the soccer sidelines and she had been a teacher and the mother who was sitting, standing next to her was talking about a nonprofit. She was starting and Jacqueline said, "I can volunteer for that. I could help out with that." And so it was actually this incredible way in which to start, once you have sort of intentional goals, whether they be really small, like my personal goal was to heal reactivity.
[00:39:41] That is not a small goal, but like it could be small, have a silly household. I'm gonna have a dance party every Monday. Or if it's professional, it could be I just stay open to other opportunities that are coming up or when you're ready to return to work, those mom friends are actually some of your best networks to lean on, to return to.
[00:40:03] Lindsay: Yeah, that's great. You're right. And there are so many, where we are right now, it's like I'm seeing a lot of my mom friends who are in, have kids in the middle school and high school, and it's like a lot of them are thinking or have been planning if they're not working full-time on, what is the next thing? Now I'll have time to do that. Or maybe they are full-time, but they're thinking about, okay, does this really still light me up? I wanted to just say one thing that I have found is I do think when I was mentioning about wanting to take just eight weeks of maternity leave with my son right away, when I came back, one of my first, they said, Hey, would you come back early?
[00:40:45] I was going to take 12 weeks. And they said, would you come back early, at 10 weeks? Because we have the, Indy 500 is an event that I had covered. And they said we would love for you to do it and then we'll let you have the remaining time and then come back to your studio job. And I. I was nervous at first, but I knew I loved covering that event. And after I talked to other moms who had done it, who were working on it, and got the lay of the land on how to do it... I was nervous about leaving my son for the first time because I just didn't know how I was gonna feel. I was just so in love with this new baby. And I, anyway, I really discovered about myself that, whoa, when I'm in the thing and I'm traveling to this live event, it exposed to me a different side of maybe what I had done for a living that I realized, oh, this is the part of it that really drives me.
[00:41:32] Like it's being on the ground, having the rapport, the conversations with the people that are playing the game, or racing in the race, whatever. it really highlighted for me, I love doing a studio job, but like this, I left, I got there, I was pumping in a trailer... like I'm doing all the things, but it, I was like, I'm okay. And this is so exciting, and. So in my experience, I would try to listen to that a lot. What is, and I find that if I'm on the road for a sporting event, sometimes it's really hard to leave. Like when I'm going out the door, I'm like, Ugh. And sometimes it'll hit harder than others, but I'm always knowing that, usually, that when I get there, it's okay, you're in it.
[00:42:14] And for me that's something that even if it ends up that I'm doing it with however much time in between that now is oh, that's the thing that it's worth it for me to miss the time. I don't know how much that makes sense, but I just think that's also a tool is to really understand what you would spend time away from your family for,
[00:42:36] Neha: That is actually, we've talked a little bit about how you can feel intentional during a time away, like really make, oh, because goals dignify time. But the other piece of this is like what you're describing you can do, whether you're working in not the home or outta the home, existing in between, is that like serious self-study because of what does light you up? Because I think that's one of the gifts of when you slow down a little bit, whether you're on, whether it's like a weekend or two years, you can actually start to tune into, if I'm not doing this other thing that I was always doing well, what else is there? And I, I, think about this woman down in North Carolina who had like a Google doc.
[00:43:20] She had an iPhone notes app open. And she would just write down bullets of things that sparked her interest or conversation, podcasts she would listen to that made her like research more or things she just felt proud of, like things she felt happy and in flow, like what you're describing. And she wrote down, one of those bullets happened to be that she had reorganized her son's bus route because he wasn't getting picked up and like she had felt really fulfilled. She felt really proud that she had managed to do this. It was just a small thing and kind of got buried in the list. And then when she was looking to return about, and I always say like when you're looking to return, start planning like a year ahead of time. As soon as you feel that little nudge.
[00:44:03] Yeah. But she looked back at the list and that bullet that seemed so random jumped out to her. And what it did was it revealed to her like, oh, I'm really interested in project management. Like I felt in flow seeing that project end to end. And that kind of thing, like you describing paying attention to, I love being out in the field. That feels worth it to me. And I think, in our research I commissioned a survey called the American Mothers on Pause Survey with 1200 at home parents and a thousand members of the general population. Mothers returning to work. They rank flexibility, then stress, less stress, more head space, and then more meaning.
[00:44:43] Like top three. And I think it's because our bar is so high. So I think if we have this ability during this time to really not only move ourselves forward in sort of those deep goals that we maybe had put on the shelf and like those small ways that we hadn't grown for a long time, but then also meet women we may have never gotten a chance to meet with and then explore in small ways things that light us up so that when and if we're returning in a way that feels really meaningful.
[00:45:16] Lindsay: Yeah. I love that. And I also, when you said that about loss, I actually had a therapist say that, and he said, you realize that when you change something, that there is actually a grief period. And I was like, that's so interesting. But I think that's also obviously what you've said, that things can be so tied to self-worth.
[00:45:41] And that also makes me think about, like your upbringing. You think about it, I'm just genuinely curious, too, after doing some work on this myself, like what, how, the way that I was raised, I had an extremely loving family, and my mom was a teacher and my father was a journalist. But just how does the way that you were raised and what you saw impact you? And it's funny because my mom was always, I, she always worked except for when she took two years off. When she tells me all the time that I guilted her out, and she took two years off. But my mom also always felt like she was just super present with me. Like I didn't know any different. And she was also always doing these things, like making these big Halloween decorations and putting them on the front steps and doing scavenger hunts with us.
[00:46:31] And so I think, I don't know, there's this whole... There's a lot to unpack also, I think, in the way that you're raised with what you saw and really as much as possible kind of pushing that away. And just like thinking about truly what you've said, like what is it in your heart that makes what is your balance? What do you need? What do you want? I do wanna ask you about the financial part of this, because I just found that you, I think you had so many really great points about how to plan and how to have the right conversations that are very important to have if you're choosing or considering having a pause and frankly I think that they're really beneficial, even if you're not. Can you expand a little bit on that? And I love how you shared your experience with your own date nights and that whole structure.
[00:47:18] Neha: We as a culture, shy away from money, it feels like one of those icky topics, right? But when we actually open it up between ourselves… My husband really taught me to do this, because I did not love Google Spreadsheet or Excel. That was just wasn't my love language and I'm not our, like annual meetings are, they're not Roman, they, I would never say spreadsheets are romantic, but I will tell you that we do, we have instituted this practice and I talk about it in the book and, share templates to do this, but
[00:47:53] Lindsay: Do you think your husband’s love language is spreadsheets?
[00:47:56] Neha: I think his love language is planning together. Okay.
[00:48:00] Lindsay: I think my husband's might be spreadsheets, but keep on this.
[00:48:03] Neha: I think he really loves to see our life laid out in a way that makes sense. And to know that we're both bought in. And I think his love language is time. He really loves time. And forcing me to sit next to him and look at that spreadsheet is time. And in the beginning it did feel like forcing. And we did it, to his credit, even before we had kids. And I think, what that allowed us to do right away as soon as we got married was to think of ourselves as an organization, right? Like an organization that was joint and it was a household and we were gonna run it in a way that we treat our businesses in our. With so much respect, we were gonna do that at home. And so to this day, we still have a January meeting and basically we will look at, this is the income in, and then this is the, these are the budget categories that we have spent against in the year past.
[00:48:58] Where do we wanna dial up? Where can we dial down? And it's a way in which to talk about your values really. So we may, I'll use the example of last year, we might say community is really important to us, and cultivating that, and investing in that. So we're going to invest in two big parties, like a summer party and a Friendsgiving. And that takes money, right? Like that money has to come from somewhere. So we're gonna dial down on travel, like that's where we're gonna take it from, right? So you can see that's like a somewhat frivolous example, but it is a way in which we're moving things around against our values. And so when you're talking about it in the context of budgeting for a one partner to be at home or in a downshifted career, you're doing something similar where you're saying, where's the money gonna come from? And you're doing it together because it's an investment in the whole household, right? And someone's, the other partner's gonna, it goes in with the mindset of the other partner's, dependent on that other partner, right?
[00:49:58] You're going in with that. So the money isn't gonna come from like your pool over here, and now you're gonna be cutting your own hair in the corner, right? That isn't gonna happen. What's happening... We use the example of there's a woman in, or a family who moved from the Bay Area to Virginia Beach, right? Because they realized it was worth it to them and it was gonna take a big lifestyle change. Like the cost of living in the Bay was obviously very different from Virginia. For another couple in Denver, it was just moving money off of travel and dining out. So you're moving things together a lot for it.
[00:50:31] You're saying let's come back every year and reevaluate how this is going. If the change feels particularly uncomfortable, maybe you're taking it in three month increments. If by the way, you say there's actually not consensus, and so maybe we're gonna revisit this and keep revisiting it until there is consensus. Or maybe we find other ways to have time with the kids or optimize for less stress in the home. And I do recommend that if one partner has to pause or needs to pause because of a family relocation or special need or because they just want to put it into place, a postnuptial agreement is so helpful. I think we dignify the work we do with other organizations with contracts all the time. It is a contract to help you feel safe and secure so you can really focus on what this chapter's all about.
[00:51:25] Lindsay: So what is that? Is it an actual contract?
[00:51:27] Neha: A postnup. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And we have a guide to do it on the site, that we did in collaboration with Fair Play, Brodsky's work around valuing, unpaid labor. And, it is a way in which to essentially talk about if things were to go south, how in a legally binding way would the other partner's finances be protected?
[00:51:55] Lindsay: Awesome. Wow. Okay.
[00:51:57] Neha: And we know that people feel a lot of stigma around that. That is... So there are other alternatives, but it is a really important way in which to get ahead of some of those plans.
[00:52:10] Lindsay: I love that. How do you kick off the meetings?
[00:52:13] Neha: We try and make it fun and I've actually, we're a financial planner, so we actually make it like a date day. So we will set aside space on our calendar, and we'll do something fun... We'll do that, and then we'll do something fun, right? We'll go to a special restaurant. Ashley Feinstein, who's a great financial coach, talks about just having a money party. Like the kids go to bed, it's on the calendar, you're gonna put fun music on, maybe get takeout, like it's gonna feel a little bit special. Someone has done the homework beforehand to spread it all out. And that's in my situation, is my husband, or you can use a third party financial planner. Yeah. to basically show what the spending was the year prior and, create the calculations on where the money's moving around.
[00:53:04] Lindsay: I think that's such good advice. All right. I wanna get to a couple questions that people have, have sent in because I know that time is very important. So Kelly asked, "What if after you take your pause, the workforce is so changed that your place is no longer there? Like your role, your job, what you did was no longer there."
[00:53:25] Neha: Yeah, that's a big one right now with ai. and oh yeah, so it's particularly relevant. I think a couple things. One, as much as you're able to stay connected to your network and industry in low touch ways, the better. So that might be going on LinkedIn once a week, and this might be your professional goal, and just literally scrolling the feed and liking and engaging with. your industry's content, so you're showing that level of engagement. Oftentimes we underplay the way, ways in which we're still actually growing and learning while on a pause, right?
[00:54:04] Like you're, you might be listening to a podcast on the way to pick up and learn about developments. I actually learned more about marketing when I was outside, of course, because I was actually keeping a pulse. Online certifications are great, whether that be masterclass or industry specific.
[00:54:21] I do think though, beyond the ways of staying lightly connected, there's, when we talk about ways in which to start to build back your portfolio of work, to transition back to the workforce. One great stepping stone that I'm personally really excited about is this idea that other women's businesses, like female owned businesses, are more likely to hire fractional talent who have taken career breaks, right? So that's a great way in which, taking a freelance role or a part-time role as something that might be, not quite as like large and corporate as your previous role, but offers you a way in which to start to see what the work cadence feels like in your home, but also start to flex those muscles and have a place to learn.
[00:55:10] Lindsay: Okay. Also, someone said, "When is it too late to come back? I'm 49. My industry is young, media ad sales, which is similar, but that's also, more of an age thing at that point."
[00:55:26] Neha: Historically, five years in under for a career pause, like you have the be, for every year you've been out… the stakes change in terms of how easy it is to be able to transition back to the workforce. But I do highly recommend if you've been gone for a while and you're in an industry that is hard to crack back into considering a return to work coach, a return to work program, like those are incredible ways in which to transition to, to find corporations that are willing or have existing programs to help you return. So I suggest Reboot Excel. It was actually founded by a woman, Diane, who took 15 years off. She'd been at McKinsey previously. so they worked specially with people who've taken extended pauses, to help build back and coach on how the workplace and their particular industry has changed.
[00:56:19] Lindsay: Wow. Okay. Neha, before we wrap, what, tell us where we can find more of this. The power pause and what you're working towards. You've created such a powerful program, but what else? What's next? And I shouldn't say what's next because...
[00:56:38] Neha: I know. Everyone loves asking what's next.
[00:56:40] Lindsay: I know...
[00:56:41] Neha: I get to do the same exact thing, but in different ways, right? I won't be done until this movement is there's no side eye, like there's no questions left. Everyone is on board with the reality that men or women who take career breaks are still growing, they're still contributing, and that they should be respected on the other side.
[00:57:00] So I will continue to do a lot of that. You'll see a lot of that mindset reef, shifting, narrative shifting on our Instagram and socials. You can follow me on Neha Ruch at under, at, on Instagram. Or you can come get a load of free resources, which we're constantly building, whether that be a library, whether that be mother classes for women to stay engaged with new ways to learn, our flex jobs board, so that women have access to those, opportunities to continue to, participate in the workforce on some level. You can find that all at thepowerpause.com.
[00:57:38] Lindsay: I have one more question 'cause I just, when we, chatted briefly about not liking the terms, for me it's, passion project. 'cause I think that just sounds a little bit like it's your, your little thing. And what was the one you said? There was something… Like project, little blog? Like just Instagram thing in your research. How many women, or is there a number that you have observed, or a percentage of women, who did one thing, took a power pause, and then really became energized by something totally different and ended up doing something totally different on the other side? Because I do, I know that you've got the research to back it, but I do really think that's a strength of women. and partially it's like our multitasking brains or just the, whatever it is.
[00:58:27] Neha: Yeah. Anecdotally, so we don't have the numbers. I can tell you that 90% of women keep themselves connected and while they're on pause, meaning that they're exploring something, they're cultivating new interests, new hobbies, they're volunteering. So they're dabbling in all those ways in which lend to new concepts coming out of that. Anecdotally, I would say if I were the gray, our audience is essentially made up of 50% fully on pause, and 50% in what we call the gray area, where they have shifted into something they can do on their own terms, right? And that is their really exciting piece, which is that they're, when women are shifting back, they're trying to construct ways in which to contribute and do work of meaning in ways that work for them.
[00:59:14] Lindsay: You're amazing. Three things. No one knows about you real quick.
[00:59:18] Neha: I'm very messy. I cannot eat a meal without...
[00:59:20] Lindsay: I would never believe that. Are you serious?
[00:59:23] Neha: Yeah. Yeah. Little known fact. I read the ending of a show before I watch it so that I don't feel too stressed. The world is stressful enough. You don't need friends and neighbors in succession keeping you up at night, which it does if I don't read the ending. and. I took a year off between high school and college and I hiked in the Himalayas, which again, was unbelievable. If you look at me, I'm not a hiker. I don't know what I was thinking.
[00:59:53] Lindsay: What was that like?
[00:59:55] Neha: It was great. To bring this full circle, it was like the first time I went to a train stop to surround myself with interesting people and figure out what came next.
[01:00:05] Lindsay: Wow. Thank you so much. This has been amazing and you're doing so much good work that is just helping so many people. So godspeed on the landscape ahead.
[01:00:19] Neha: I can't wait. Good work. Work with you. Thank you.
[01:00:22] Lindsay: Thank you. I absolutely love the work Neha is doing because I just think that even being able to talk to other women about this conversation, having people talk about it in general, is so important. I love the narrative and the thought of really supporting other women in the decisions that they're making, but reframing what it is and also just the tools that come out of the decision to take that power pause. And, like I mentioned before, I shared the conversation, just the power in what we gain during that time potentially I think could be really interesting to think about.
[01:00:59] I'm a huge believer in Neha's work and I really encourage you guys to check out her platform, Mother Untitled, and of course to read The Power Pause, and look, even if you're in the midst of your career and you're someone who has never even considered taking a break, just having your eyes, I think open to this and to also like just the mental mind warp for folks when they're faced with a decision of Hey, what's going on? What are you doing? Maybe it just brings a little bit of understanding to everybody out there for these conversations. Be sure, TNOTYers, to tune in every Thursday to hear new episodes.
[01:01:31] Thanks so much for joining me. I can't wait to see you back here next week. Please don't forget, follow and subscribe to things no one tells you. And of course, if you're listening on Apple Podcasts, don't forget to leave a five star review because that's really what helps people get more listeners; we would love to grow this community. We are so grateful that you're a part of it. See you next time.